@Putin33

"thus far you've paid very little attention to unfavorable outcomes of the liberal sort"

No man, I have been *trying* to pay attention to that, I got into this thread with an interest in whether or not a Basic Income of the type proposed in Switzerland might be a social benefit. I really do have an interest in things that can be done to improve the human condition; however I guess by disposition I focus on attainable, incremental improvements rather than a dreamt-up utopia.

"Paralysis leads to crisis in virtually all cases. The very reason why so-called "strongmen" come to power in the first place in most cases is because they get their countries out of crisis."

As an emergency measure, sure, that's how Lincoln came to be respected. As an organizing principle in perpetuity? A strongman or military government is more brittle than a liberal government because it has an existential crisis every time leadership changes.

"Now how much ineffectiveness are you willing to tolerate from a liberal government? Or is that unlimited?"

One presidential term, or less if impeachment seems feasible.

"How much illiberality am I willing to tolerate? That's dependent on how effective the government is.at providing social goods."

Well, what if the social goods are withdrawn and you can do nothing about it because you live under an authoritarian government? I'm sure people in North Korea have noticed that their social goods are lacking. Not much they can do about it though.

"Better for nobody to get any services whatsoever, and for living standards to decline, than to ever have to suffer under the rule of a government that is illiberal, right?"

Not answering that bullshit. Those are not the only options.

Anyway, I get what your deal is now. You want strongman/militaristic government because you reckon that it will result in a better living condition for people. OK, but this is spite of evidence to the contrary (North Korea, Dirty War-era South America, the various Soviet and Khmer Rouge purges that did occur but are too trite to mention to someone actually *recommending* their system of government). More fundamentally you’re not concerned about the ongoing risk that the wrong leader will "take the wheel." Correct?