Wait, if you pretend to CD, won't you die from other countries leaping on you?

It'll annoy people who have to wait for you to NOT make a move EVERY-SINGLE-F***ING-TURN.... In my short experience *that* is why people target CD countries.

No I mean, in some situation, (it doesnt occur that often, i think) i feel like it would be beneficial to not submit any orders one turn, your opponent lets his gaurd down, and then you surprise him by entering moves last second in the autumn? I guess its not very moralistic, but is it legal?

If I see a CD I know I don't have to worry about them (assuming no one else picks it up), so a quick stab can work well. Seeing a likely CD, I put in some last-minute stab orders in a recent game (gameID=91517), and I think it worked well.

^ That comment should have been started with @Vicky[Toss]

And following on to emfries... same-same but different - if I see someone about to miss a turn, with no orders submitted, I might just wait and see if I can take advantage of the fact that their armies and navies are flailing about without orders...submit fresh orders in the last minute or so. People miss moves for all sorts of reasons - like armies do in the "real" world... so Id never assume someone was going to miss, just because they'd missed the last deadline.

@BrownPaperTiger that's what I do too. If I am there as the phase is changing and see no orders submitted, I will open a separate window and create my set of "CD-based" orders. I will save the "real" orders, and then with a few seconds left, check again, and if appropriate, submit the "CD-based" orders.

Valid, probably... it's a pity there is no option to enter no moves and have the site portray you as having CD'd

I wouldn't say 'people who have to wait for you to NOT make a move EVERY-SINGLE-F***ING-TURN' have any reason to complain or be annoyed.

They joined a game with a given phase length, they agreed to wait EVERY SINGLE TURN. If they wanted a faster game they should have joined one with a shorter phase.

entering your moves at the last second on the other hand is rather dickish, you are exploiting the mechanics of the website for tactical reasons, I would definitely consider that an infraction of the rules. (*keep the server fun* and *use common sense*) But if people do it often enough nobody will let their guards down, so it will not become a problem...

Punishment however would require proving the crime, and that would be rather more difficult. I think the concept of 'self-moderation' comes into play. Don't be a dick or the other kids will not want to play with you.

Also, i don't think this website is improved by having players who spend more time online during the day gain a greater advantage. (though those who are better communicators do gain a definite advantage, except in gunboat... which isn't really dip :p)

@orathaic I don't see how it's breaking the rules. For one, I would say *keep the server fun* means to not be a troll in games. As to *use common sense*, if you saw in a F2F that someone wasn't going to submit orders, wouldn't you change your orders accordingly? It's only logical to do so.

^ i agree with emfries. You gained some more information (the guy was not going to submit orders) and changed accordingly. It is just like chaging orders because you see a stab coming

"They joined a game with a given phase length, they agreed to wait EVERY SINGLE TURN. If they wanted a faster game they should have joined one with a shorter phase."

This argument really annoys me because when people say this it is almost always in reference to live games, which most people want to play through without the game being needlessly extended. It is very common to find players sitting out full 5 minute phases, even on build and retreat phases (retreats where the only option is to disband), simply to drag the game on and often to force people to draw or resign. This kind of gameplay is rude and obnoxious. There is no shorter time limit beyond 5 minute phase games and therefore currently no way to prevent unsportsmanlike gameplay from players who manipulate the game mechanics to their advantage.

Most people who are complaining about 'waiting' are not talking about long-phase games - it is quite obvious that people signing up to such games will have to do a fair amount of 'waiting'. And it is irrelevant to this thread anyway because the 'CD strategy' would not work in long phase games because it is highly unlikely that the other 6 players will be sitting there at the right time with baited breaths watching for a player to CD or not so they can alter their moves.

I've waited till the last minute to see if someone would CD in a 3 day/phase game.

Yes, I didn't say that no player will ever have the time to waste to do it. But surely you can agree that in a 3 day phase game, for example, it is highly unlikely that 6 other players would log on at the right time to see if someone CDs?

In any case, regarding live games, it is certainly dickish to draw out a game in order to try and get people to give up. But there can be legitimate reasons to wait the full five minutes, even on retreat phases. You may want to use the extra time to consider the next phase for example.

^ i myself have had to drag it out because I have had to do something in real life, and wanted to be sure to get orders in. Wasn't trying to ruin the game by forcing them to draw/resign, simply needed the extra time

@Alderian: Sure. There is a flip side to every coin. I was flipping orathaic's coin, you're flipping mine :)

Some players, though, have admitted sitting out full phase lengths simply for the purpose of seeing if people will resign.

Well, I didn't waste time, I just noted when the phase change would be and since it was at a reasonable time for me, I made sure I checked in 10 minutes before hand and then did other web browsing while it counted down. Not a waste of time at all.

In any case, he was an ally and was royally screwing me over by disappearing so I was preparing to salvage my situation if need be. I was actually preferring that he log in, respond to messages, and continue with our alliance.

Yes, and they are dicks, and in my opinion meta-gaming.

Sing it with me :)

I wasnt talking about people holding out - I'm talking about having to wait out the timer because someone aint coming back. Example - all but one country has submitted orders, but we end up waiting because someone has decided they dont like losing, or dont like Dip

Well, then it doesn't last "EVERY-SINGLE-F***ING-TURN". It would only last 2 fucking turns.

And...in my limited experience, I havent joined anything shorter than an 18hr phase - because I dont want to miss a turn just because Im having a life. But its kinda annoying when the game is needlessly dragged out simply because someone's taken their bat and ball and gone home.

pmsl.

What a bunch of sooky la la's

Are there any "rules about limits" on "disinformation"

You are allowed to disseminate all sorts of lies about your intended moves
and to enter all hold moves is essentially playing CD & the game allows you to enter all holds. If to "play CD" by promptly confirming hold orders was a contravention of the rules then that feature would not be there.

Plus to announce you are going to "play CD" can change things in the "alliance dances", suddenly othjer players become more obliging, interested in talking.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to say you will play CD and then launch a secret attack
especially if the CD ruse seduces another player into launching an attack elsewhere, on the basis that a CD country is a "safe front" for him for 2 moves, so he can nobble a rival, then keep that going and plunder the CD country in following moves,
and then you hit him with a secret attack that throws a dozen spanners in his works.

That is a completely legitimate use of disinformation

So is telling another player that a 3rd player will be CD & it's a secret to seduce him into a mistake

I play Dip for many reasons, and one is so I can behave like and old Harlot and make lots of statements of dubious veracity to other players

Games are frequently ruined by CDs. Simulating one to get people to play in fear or preparation of one is both BS and weaksauce. Period.

This is one of the main reasons I dislike the fact that you can see whether other powers have submitted orders. IMO that is the single biggest flaw with how this site is set up. I can gain all sorts of tactical insights by looking at who has submitted orders and who has clicked "ready". I just don't think there's any good reason for that information to be available.

You can deliver messages in a no in game messaging gunboat by simply voting draw or cancel. that's a pretty clear sign of intent right there. there is never any need to abuse features like your describing beyond their intent, if you cant win a game with tactics that are within the common sense fundamentals of the game your a pretty shitty person and I don't think any serious players would ever respect your convoluted assessment of CD's being lawful stratagem.

I'll keep at it gang, unless an almighty mod has a chat to me,
and further....

I can decide at a certain point in a game, no, i am on the wrong end of this mid game to end game alliance dance & I am going down here, and i am not going to provide my opponents with any more "reads" on how I play my best game, ( so i can keep some tricks for a possible rematch, so it's prompt completion of orders so no delay is inflicted on other players, but it's "silly suicide" moves or unsupported holds

& you can legitimately use quite a lot of psychological warfare in this caper,
please don't act "the chaste virgin" on that one

The 3 main weapons of the Spanish Inqisition are Fear, the comfy chair, and.....

I put a player completely off his top game when he reveal'd a serious aversion to being called a "servant" in any message.
I shamelessly exploited his manic rage by increasing the psychological attack
& the whole escapade gave me the graeatest amusement

blah blah blah

& this is "play" war
if you cannot handle it here then......

My much loved cousin fought in Vietnam & google Firebase Coral and Balmoral
to get clued in on what he saw & took part in.

Here's a guide to his moral choices in war
he killed chaps with the cold steel bayonet without hesitation,
as part of a patrol he helped kill anbout 20 VC including several women , and one who was having an early morning sexual encounter with one of the VC men & that coupling couple got blasted by multiple M16 fire
his unit took no prisoners

however he prevented a small group of young women, farm village peasants, who had been taking supplies to the local VC & sprung by a group of soldiers on their way back to their village, the women have a bullshit story about being out picking bamboo shoots & they have a dozen woven containers and bugger all bamboo shoots for a day's picking and not enough to feed a churchmouse

but the local VC will punish the village if they do not send the rice etc

well it's on the verge of happening, a few of the troops are suggesting it & there's a
start with some involountary disrobing of a few of the women--

that's when Andy stepped up, and put a stop the the proceedings, women sent scurrying home. Not Right, and also a possible trap
you want to go a whoring, and he did, in Bangkok on r&r is the place, not on active duty in the bush with Vc around watching & rape aint whoring either

but there's a clue to morality in real war

and one of his favourite ploys, leave notes for the VC
to decipher / translate
death threats, the full 9 yards, tell them how many he's already killed and he's coming for them next, he hopes they can see him coming to kill them in their dreams, do their dreams start with his bayonet piercing their throat, or do they hear the rustle of his silent approach in the dreams ?

game are frequently ruined by Cd's etc

you prim little schoolmarm Trooth

It's a feature of internet gaming sites and this one
adapt or perish

@ Trooth
keep accumulating points till you get a bout 1200, then play in high stakes games
i'd expect less Cd's there

I think you grossly overestimate the issue
& i don't see it as a problem

yes i get messed about by it in games, but i also get heaps of opportunities from the
chaos it causes

Additionally, if you wish to pursue the argument that all 7 nations in Europe at the time all had super efficient and well governed states the why did the tradgedy of WW1 occur ???

It was because the governments were collectively incompetant, idiots in charge
& plenty of mistakes went down 250,000 dead at Gallipoli on the Turkish peninsular
Rusian revolution took Russia out of the war as a strong opponent on the eastern front
there's civil disorder during the real thing

and honestly, Purists on soapboxes
choose a different game, one with a happpy ending for all participants and not competitvely based

Plus this site performs a valuable role in allowing wackos to unload psychological baggage

Plenty of stuff goes down in games that is just like Dianna Ross's left leg
NOT RIGHT & NOT FAIR

if you choose to bleat about it then off yer go sonny jim
but i will ridicule you
i will also succinctly demonstrate your convoluted logic as flawed

pitch another & do try to get it somewhere above the plate

Major...

1) I didnt say disallow it, I said it was weak play. You are welcome to do that if thats what you need to do to win or punish better players who are winning. If annoying play is your best tool, I suggest you continue to use it.

2) This is a game, not real warfare.

3) Go ahead an ridicule me, your opinion has little worth to me.

4) I doubt I could have handled Vietnam. I doubt most of us could have. I have the utmost respect for what your cousin and other veterans have gone through.

5) Please remember to take your meds tomorrow.

Who are you babbling too good God.

What about intentionally NMRing? Say for instance, you want to save a build but don't want to show you are saving a build, or disband but don't want to show you are disbanding. I feel bad spending an entire phase on it, but it can be really useful.

major please contain your incessant babbling to one fucking post.