So he didn't choke once or twice but on average he chokes more often then not.

Carried the team on his back, sure...until he got to the playoffs. Yes...he won ONE Superbowl, after dominating for how many seasons? I'm NOT saying he isn't a great quarterback...but the GREATEST follows through all the way consistently. He fails on this point. Again..great...not greatest.

I didn't say greatest but to consider Flacco or even Eli in the same league as him is pure stupidity.

I don't think anyone thinks Flacco is that great.

Let me make a comparison with a quarterback I can't stand, Brett Favre. Favre lost games because he tried to do everything himself even though he had a team around him that could win. He tried to force things when he didn't have to.

Peyton Manning, on the other hand, was by design and necessity the entirety of the Colts offense. He was really the entirety of their team -- the Colts defense and offensive line both kind of sucked the last couple of years he was there. The Colts were good because Manning made them good. That means that when the Colts are losing, he has to force throws and take risks because that's the only way the Colts are going to win. When that doesn't work, it isn't choking; it's just losing because the other guys are better.

Well this year will be a good test for him then. The Broncos got lucky last year and are a middling team. We'll see how Peyton does with them.

The question can he still play after being out for a year?

Not "after being out for a year"...but "after suffering nerve damage from an operation and having to travel to Europe to get stem-cell treatment that was illegal in the US to try to regenerate his nervous system...."

You have seen the end of Peyton Manning's glory days. Will be a shadow of his once-self. and I say this as a guy who, because of Payton Manning, got his wife and girl-children to watch football with him (they loved his commercials....and stint on Saturday Night Live...whatever....they now watch football with me....because of Peyton...)

Flacco is very good. I judge QBs mostly by their ability to throw the ball deep and accurate. Flacco doesn't have the receivers most other top QBs have.

1- Brees
2 - Cutler
3 - Stafford
4 - Rivers
5 - Brady
6 - Worthlessberger (hate him, but guy is good)
7 - Flacco
8 - Schaub
9 - Rodgers
10 - Romo

My current top 5 NFL QBs, generally speaking: 1. Rodgers, 2. Brady, 3. Brees, 4. Stafford, 5. Schaub (if healthy, which is never). Eli is probably 6. I'm disqualifying Peyton until I see him play well again.

My currrent top 5 NFL QBs, based on deep ball accuracy: 1. Brees, 2. Rodgers, 3. Eli Manning, 4. Romo, 5. Schaub

I'd say Flacco is a top-16 QB (upper half of NFL starters). I wouldn't put him top 10. Sometimes he does very nicely, and sometimes he disappears. Flacco had some monster games with Torrey Smith last year. He doesn't have an elite group of receivers, but he also isn't the elite QB to make his receivers seem better than they are. Lots of QBs do very well with one elite WR and a bunch of scrubs. Brady with Welker and scrubs (Branch, Edelman, Ochocinco) since Moss left; Stafford with Megatron and scrubs (Nate Burleson = Seattle and Minnesota reject, Titus Young); Schaub with AJ and scrubs (Kevin Walter, Jacoby Jones). Boldin had a dropoff going from ARI to BAL, maybe if Flacco were better then Q would be putting up bigger numbers.

AQ is not a #1 receiver on most teams, and he didn't get that many more yards in Arizona, where he didn't have Rice to hand the ball to.

I mean if we're going by wins then I don't see why Flacco doesn't get the same treatment that people are giving Rodgers and Eli Manning. The only reason we aren't talking about Flacco more is because his kicker missed a gimme FG & the refs took back a TD from Evans.

@Putin....that fact that you are talking about what is the ULTIMATE in Capitalist endeavors just PROVES the fact that you are a fucking fraud in your god-damned political bulllshit. Asshole.

We've gone over this. NFL is the most socialized sports league ever. They split the tv revenue 32 ways. Jacksonsville gets the same amount as Dallas.

And leave it to Krellin to piss on a laid back thread.

<ROLLS EYES,,,> Yeah....the kicker on the NY Giants got paid the EXACT SAME as Eli Manning...TOTALLY SOCIALIST!!!! GOOD GOD....PUTIN IS RIHGT!!!!


Stupid bitch....Putin, you are the ETERNAL MORON. I'll tell you this...if the NFL DOES become socialist, they will be fighting over YOU for their team Court Idiot....

Putin....not pisssing on ANYTHING but YOUR HYPOCRICY, BITCH. Putin....son of the devil...don your badge PROUDLY, bitch......after all, I AM EVIL....you are great, right? So why complain...UNLESSS YOU HAVE A GUILTY CONSCIENCE, BITCH!

Stop drinking so much. It's bad for your health.

"after suffering nerve damage from an operation and having to travel to Europe to get stem-cell treatment that was illegal in the US to try to regenerate his nervous system"
I confess to not knowing that he had to go to Europe because the treatment was illegal in the US...

@Putin: Accurate deep throws is one of the many parts of being a quarterback and I'm sure all of the QBs can throw a half decent 20+ yard throw, if not they wouldn't be in the NFL.

Calling plays, finding whos open, the pressure and awareness. Accuracy not just in long throws, but in short throws. Flacco comes from a stacked team. His defense has his back and the ravens rarely blow leads not because the offense can rack up points, but because the defense can prevent the opponent from catching up.

There is nothing wrong with a good defense, and I generally prefer games that are small scoring, tight defense then ones with touch downs on almost every pass (the irony of being stuck with the Pats as my team).

And as for going by wins, I don't give a shit about wins, Obi is the only one who cares about wins. I don't judge a QB based on his ability to win. The two stats I care for the most is the QB rating (since although I disagree with some of its weightings, its the best 'overall' formula being offered) and the teams reliance on said QB (record with him starting vs him injured/benched, the passing yards per game of team compared to the running yards)

I admit I don't watch enough football to give a good accurate list, so I am going to go with my team and say TOM BRADY # 1!!!

Peyton has done well, and looking at how the colts did with and without him proves that he is an amazing QB, but throwing 7 interceptions in the Colts only superbowl run of the Manning era sorta makes me question if he is worthy.

Rodgers had an amazing year by any standard last year, but looking at Flynn's 480 yards and 6 touchdowns in the 1 game he played for GB last year brings something into question. The fact that it was Rogders backup that holds Greenbays record for most touchdowns in a game and most yards in a game sorta questions whether it was Rodgers that made the team look good, or the team that made Rodgers look good.

Call it blind faith but Tom Brady has proven himself, holds the record of most Superbowl appearances by a QB, most touchdowns in a year etc.

@Fasces: By your reasoning, we should discount Tom Brady's success in NE because when he went down Matt Cassel produced comparable numbers. We see now in KC that Cassel is nothing special, so Brady's success must be all system right?

I don't really believe that. The system and the quality of the players around you definitely are important, but I think Brady and Rodgers both are elite QBs. I watched all of Rodgers' college games and he is very special, and has only gotten better as a pro.

@Putin: If the Ravens had won the Superbowl in the same manner they won most of their games last season, I still don't think people would be talking about Flacco the same way they are talking about Eli now. They'd be talking about the defense and Ray Rice, giving Flacco a little more credit than they gave Trent Dilfer in 2000.

I think we'll never know how Boldin might have been had he gone somewhere else. In Arizona, some people questioned whether he or Fitzgerald was the better WR. Everybody would say Fitzgerald now, but if say Boldin had gone to Green Bay and filled the Greg Jennings role then he might still be in the conversation as an elite WR1. I don't fault Flacco for Boldin's decline in productivity. A lot of it is the system, and it was predicted that Boldin would decline in Baltimore. I'm just saying that if Flacco were an elite QB, Boldin might be doing better.

1. Brees
2. Flynn
...
3.-6000000000+. everyone else in the world
...
...
...
600000000-whatever. Flacco

@The Hanged Man:
2007: 16-0
2008: missed the playoffs

QB rating:
Brady 2007: 117.2
Cassel 2008: 89.4
Brady 2009: 96.2

New England YPG:
2007: 411
2008: 365
2009: 397

New England had a decent year in 2008, but nothing compared to the year before or the year after.

And besides look at 2008:
Record against play-off teams: 2-4
Record against non-play off teams: 9-1
one could make the argument that it was a significantly easier schedule then most of there recent schedules (with exception to the last one)

Rodgers is a good QB and no doubt elite, you'd have to be to hold the record of a best QB rating in a season, but again, is that because he is the best QB ever, or because his team made him look good.

Again, I would still say Rodgers is a top 5, probably top 3, QB. But I don't think hes the best.

There is no way in ever knowing who really is the best, since Football is a team game and there is quite a lot of luck and the QB isn't the only player.