I wasn't pushing anything about race or gender, so check your premises before you dive in here, Eden. No where did Crazy make it apparent that he opposed the execution. Instead he devoted much time to poking holes in every aspect of doubt brought forward. He rejected the idea that there are careless convictions. He rejected the idea that there isn't political pressure to go forward with executions regardless of how flimsy the evidence is. He claimed the appeals process worked properly.

If you're on the fence about a particular case then you can't act all haughty about how anti-death penalty you are.

I'll need to go reread, then, and in the meantime retract the previous statement. I'm probably getting conversations mixed up because I distinctly recall someone in one of the conversations I've had about this subject going full-on racebaiting mode.

@ Putin

As the rich are well known to have a considerable edge in the US legal system, does that not automatically bias a jury against them? I've only been in a couple of juries, and that experience (from the British system which may well be quite different) has taught me that juries usually make up a good cross section of society complete with society's anti-toff prejudice (amongst others).

"He rejected the idea that there are careless convictions. He rejected the idea that there isn't political pressure to go forward with executions regardless of how flimsy the evidence is. He claimed the appeals process worked properly. "

If you'd read what I said, you'd know that the first two are assump[tions you made about me and I never addressed them because they were you trying to bait me with things I didn't believe to begin with and the last was only an explanation of what the appeals process was. I didn't say he was guilty, ever.

"If you're on the fence about a particular case then you can't act all haughty about how anti-death penalty you are."

Again read what I said. I was on the fence and in looking at this case I decided to reject the death penalty. I've been very clear about this I have no idea why you're being so willfully blind to what I'm actually saying.

Oh yes I do. It's to take the heat off of you and the fact that you embrace the death penalty against certain people. Once again I reject it for any person.

Again it's more fair to kill this person than that person and if you give him enough room he'll try yo make it sound a lot better than that. It's still true that he's been raving about this one execution when people are being executed in China without regard to social status and in much more of a hurry. One of the reformers in China's government expressed a desire to "kill fewer, and kill carefully". I'll post the link later.

How am I being willfully blind? You in one breath say you're on the fence and in the next you insist that you're adamantly anti-death penalty.

Still trying to take the heat off of you with a meaningless sidebar? Everyone can read what I said and everyone can tell that you're misrepresenting me.

I am anti-death penalty. You are not.

So you weren't on the fence? Or you're not anti-death penalty in all cases? How am I misrepresenting you? You're incomprehensible.

When I came to the decision is irrelevant, and I would welcome you to join me.

I am anti-death penalty. You are not.

The biggest word is three syllables, surely it isn't incomprehensible.

I would welcome you to join me.

LOL, you're ridiculous. You're newly converted to the cause, engaged in a long debate about the case with me who opposed the execution from the beginning (calling me "one-sided", which supposedly now that you're a convert you will be too), and then you attack me for not being as righteous and committed as you on the death penalty question! And yet somehow I'm blamed for "misrepresenting" this load of garbled rubbish you call your position.

You would make Trotsky proud with that kind of performance.

Again you are trying to take the heat off of you by trying to assert that I'm being insincere. You will not denounce China for being responsible for 60% of last years executions. It serves your purpose to denounce the crimes of one side and sweep the crimes of another under the rug.

For me, fair is fair. If the death penalty could be shown to be fair in it's application toward everyone I might support it. It cannot so I oppose it, for everyone. For you it's a tool that would be more useful in another's hands.

Feigning ignorance hasn't worked so now you seem to have moved on to questioning my sincerity (in a new conversion that I was perfectly clear i was considering from the begining) all the while refusing to deny that you are perfectly comfortable killing the rich.

Where did you get that figure from? China doesn't release its figures on executions. So, you're just making stuff up again.

China is a developing country trying to manage 1.3 billion people. Applying the same standard to different conditions is foolish. But rightwingers always seem preoccupied with holding poorer countries to Swedish standards in order to excuse injustices in their own country.

Amensty International, and those figures are conservative as they only used the ones they could confirm. The Bamboo Curtain isn't what it used to be in the information age.

"But rightwingers always seem preoccupied with holding poorer countries to Swedish standards in order to excuse injustices in their own country."

BTW India is a very similar developing country and doesn't need near as many executions to "manage" their 1 billion people.

And I'm not excusing anything as I'm opposed to the death penalty for everyone.

Sorry it was the year before last.

"Eighteen countries carried out executions in 2009. Amnesty International has documented the executions of 714 people, but this total does not include figures from China, where the majority of the world’s executions take place, so the real global total is significantly higher. In 2009, China again refused to divulge exact figures on its use of the death penalty, although evidence from previous years and a number of current sources indicates that the figure remains in the thousands."

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ACT50/001/2010/en/17348b70-3fc7-40b2-a258-af92778c73e5/act500012010en.pdf

There are figures that give a more modest estimate (that's where 60% came from)based on the executions that can be confirmed. I'll get them if you like.

Here are the stats from the guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/mar/29/death-penalty-countries-world#zoomed-picture

I don't know whether to laugh or be sick, I thought this was a joke website until I checked it out further. It was in USA TOday in 2006. China is making mobile execution chambers in the form of buses.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-14-death-van_x.htm