Question one: If I'm in a game of equally rated players (perhaps 300 point player range) and I come in second (18 16, for example), does it HURT my GR because I survived.... or do I get compared to each player, "exchange points" with each player, and therefore end up with a higher GR due to beating 5, despite losing to 1?

Question two: If I join a game, I assume the GR doesn't "care" that I wasn't originally part of the game. So if I had the opportunity, let's say, to join a World game late, and be one of 5 survivors (again, assuming all players of equal GR), would I have a net gain in GR?

also is it true ancient med doesnt effect GR? thats where my best games are played

I'm sure if someone else won, you didn't beat anybody

But I am not sure how it affects GR..

(see how far I've fallen lol). (actually, the World game looks interesting, but I don't want to trash my GR) FYI, both games above are PPSC - would that make a diff?

@malt, i believe it is weighted by a factor of 0.5

For shame, Lando. YOU might not care about "coming in second in your division", or "running second in the Boston Marathon", but we are not all you. Second...is far better than last, unless it's a WTA game :)

I know I'm just kidding. I personally believe that Diplomacy has one winner, or several people who tie and doesn't distinguish any other places. But that is just myself.

I am not an authority, but I will attempt to answer the way I understand it. The best way to find out would be to check TGMs formulas.
1. The way I understand it, In a PPSC game, you get compared to each player and exchange with everyone and would so gain GR.
2. I have no idea about this one but I would guess that the GR only compares the GR of all the players in the game at the end and doesn't care about CDs. So, in this case, your GR would improve.

how are world games weighted for GR? i have a few of them that im hoping to finish up this month

im pretty sure the only variants included in GR are PPSC (weighted the same as wta) gunboat and public press (both weighted at 0.5).
the variants with different maps and different numbers of players arent included at all.

WTA is just like points in that the winner take all in GR. 2/35ths of the ending players (CDs don't count) GR points are put in the pot and the winner gets them. PPSC is close to a PPSC points split but with some adjustment based on where you were expected to fall by position amongst other players.

I thought there was a one half adjustment or something for World and Ancient Med, but I could be wrong.

so basically i need to play more classic map games instead of ancient even though ancients better in my opinion if i want to have a signifcant increase in GR

Sure, whatever you like maltizok.

GR gives our ghost points the same way the site does. The only difference is how much you have to pay to play. If you have a higher GR, you essentially "pay" more GR to join.

well if its whatever i like i guess i'll take a coke as well =)

lol, Indy just mad 'cause I finally jumped him this month

The best way to find out about variants would be to talk to TGM seeing as he's the authority on this system.

yeah im going to PM him since i couldnt find anything about it on the ghost rating homepage

lol yeah, Mr. President, you passed on the inside on the grass! What did you move up, 70 spots??

Hmmm... uclabb makes an interesting point. So if I'm ranked in the top 100 in GR and I'm playing with a bunch of players rated in the 1500th - 2000th range.... I'd better be taking half the SC's/point/whatevers, because I'll be pitching that much in the pot.

Now all I have to do is get in the top 100 :)

@Indy: If you are talking about the World game where Antartica is in Peru and Chile, please dont join, I am so close to getting through that game alive, once SA is dead...

In conclusion....forget this! I need to enter games that are fun to play, where I have a chance to win...and let the chips fall where they may. Or... play 45 games in a month, like Eden. How do you have the time for that????

No worries, Spryboy, that one is all yours.

Answer to absurd amount of games/month: easy undergrad college. ;>_>

And actually you are in the top 100, Indy. Top 50 even! But yeah, I had a couple of huge jumps in January and February.

Not as good as Sargmacher, though. Go look him up in the list -- joined January 31st, so he wasn't included in the February rankings. March rankings: 39th, I think, overall. Best start ever.

I joined on the 1st and Im already in the top 1000! :D
I also just got a draw in the game I mentioned above.

=) that draw made me happy, europe and ghana could have wiped me out if we didnt get that draw

This thread comes up too often for my current detachment from the forums and attachment to university. I would really appreciate it if someone could collect the questions from these threads up and send them to me so that I can write a FAQ.

I just summed up the two biggest questions in a PM to you. Should be a simple paragraph or two on the calculations page that we can all point people too.

Here are your real replies:
1.) alt maps/games are heavily weighted... so gunboats, ancient med, world maps, public press, etc... are going to not give you much of a boost either way.
2.) If you are in a game with people close to you in GR, then there should be movement around you, depending on how the game ends.
3.) GR is dependent on who you play and how you do
4.) GR affects everyone ELSE by who THEY play and how THEY do.
5.) In effect... the best way to improve your GR? Be good against people either close to you in GR or higher than you.

So... the more you play with quality opponents (which is from your perspective, so 'quality opponents' means those close to you in GR or above you), the more your GR will truly reflect how good you are.

It's VERY difficult to 'game' this ranking system.

It has it's flaws (any ranking system does, and GR's flaws are minor, IMHO), but it really is the best indicator we currently have for how good a player is. I actually take this over win/draw/survive/lose ratios, because if I just played newbies all day long (or in games where there are 2 or 3 NMR's or CD's), I'd have a hell of a ratio, but my GR would still be low.

This is what I personally suggest to work on your GR:
- create, join, and/or get involved when there are "GR games" announced... those usually create a ton of games with similar opponents, and they happen once every month or two.

- play a lot of games! Not necessarily at the same time (I think 8 is my max, and that's if I'm not strapped for time due to work, family, ref'ing, etc...). I think Ivo can play like 20 at a time ;). The more you play, the more likely you'll play quality opponents.

- Play in the leagues! This actually HURT me, but it was good for me. Initially I did well and boosted my GR, but when I moved to A last session, I got my butt handed to me by some pretty impressive players (Babak, Crazyter, djbent, LanGaiden, TheWizard, BigZombie, abermacht, etc...). I fell, learned, and somehow remained in the A league again, and moved back to a range in the GR where I think I belong (50-75ish).


If all else fails, here's the formula (I hope you are good at math):
http://tournaments.webdiplomacy.net/theghost-ratingslist
(I got to it by starting from: http://tournaments.webdiplomacy.net/)

I actually have a math minor and want to explain it in examples, but haven't had the time to. I'll work on it when I get a chance, k?

I also wanted to add (sorry, I went off on tangents) was to stop worrying about "how 2nd place in a PPSC affects your GR", or "how a draw is different than a survive with 12 SCs when it comes to your GR."
It's DIPLOMACY. If you change how your game is affected by reasons similar to the two I stated, please let me know your address so I can come over to your house and kick you repeatedly! ;) (I'm teasing, I'm teasing!!)

Those type of contemplations is you (probably unintentionally) trying to GAME the ranking system. TGM did a pretty good job making sure that if you try to do the best in a game will give you the best benefit to your GR (in order for WTA: solo win, 2 way draw, 3 way draw, 4 way draw, 5 way draw, 6 way draw; for PPSC: # of ending SCs, where a draw is 32/# players in the draw)...
If the GR did, for example, give you more points for a survive than a draw in WTA, then people would start throwing WTA games just for GR, instead of the actual game. That'd ruin the individual games and cause immense conflict. It's a form of meta gaming.

Having said ALL of that, I should note the one exception where this type of meta is not only allowed, but acknowledged, and that is during a multi game tourney or league. If you need X SCs to get into 2nd place, even if it is a survive over a draw, then all the other players should recognize this and plan on it. I don't necessarily like it, but it is one of those 'unwritten rules' that even Edi Birsan has written about.

And note that WTA gets nothing for second in points or GR. Which is why I like playing WTA. Nobody can really game it with strong seconds.

WTA is the only way to play. If anyone solo's, everyone else loses. Same in GR, which is why most games end in draws and even the most loyal allies will stop a solo from happening (which is how every game should be played... solo's should only come out of extreme luck and careful long-term planning... so they should be extraordinarily rare).