You bounce , but it has the added effect of keeping an enemy with an equivalent force out of the province and not allowing it to dislodge your unit either. It's a very useful strategy when you want to use that unit you are attacking to attack yet a third SC or to protect convoying fleets from dislodgement.

@Draugnar: First example makes sense, since the unit under attack, when attempting to move, becomes vulnerable to any stronger attack. Second example, not so much; how would this be more useful than simply support-holding the convoying fleet?

Support can be cut, but an attack cannot. If yo attack with the one that nromally would have it's support cut, then you eliminate the effect of the unit that can attack and cut the support but is out of reach to actually provide direct support to the attack on the convoy.

No, ajohnson is right... You still need to support the attack. So why not just support hold with the fleet that is support moving?

You cannot self dislodge.

Can you support an enemies unit into you own territory though?So you have a unit in BUR and PAR and you support MUN-BUR from PAR, would the unit in BUR be dislodged or would nothing happen?

No, you cannot

Thanks.

I think Draugnar is right. There are situations where the supported attack on youself is better then support hold because then only one of the two "supporting" units can have support cut. So if only one of the supporters was adjacient to an enemy then that would be a good time to use it as that unit could be the attacker and the other one be the support attacker. And as Draugner says, it also allows the unit which it being attacked in it do an attacvk on another territory to bounce.

My point was you could do it. You can effectively turn a four on three into a three on two, and if you have a unit that has a chance to clip one of his supports, you have just the same odds of turning the 3 on 2 into a 2 on 2 as turning the 4 on 3 into the 3 on 3.

Now take into account the psychological factor of you attacking (even if your own unit) versus you turtling.

I know what you mean Draug. I guess I knew that answer to the question anyway lol just didnt think about it very hard.

Well alright. Thanks.

As I said, the example of protecting (via backfill) a territory which is itself being used to attack makes sense, and I have done so myself on several occasions.

However, I'm still having trouble imagining a scenario where this is a better strategy to help a convoying fleet (or any non-moving unit) hold its position. Let's say your fleet A is convoying, and you order B to move to A and C to support B's move to A. An enemy attacking A with strength two would fail, but strength three would succeed.

Meanwhile, if you simply order B+C to support hold A, it will stop an attack on A of strength three, while using the same number of units. Even if, as Rorschach argues, another enemy unit can break support from B or C, so be it; you're still able to repel an attack of strength two, while technically using one *less* unit than the other tactic.

But whatever...not looking to make a big stink about it or anything... :)

aj's point is accurate Draug.
Bad example to pick, although must admit I can't think of any at the moment either.

Yeah, I thought about it and couldn't find a real example where self attacking a convoying (or any holding) unit made more sense than just support holding it. It only really makes sense if the unit you are self attacking is trying to issue a move order.

Indeed. But that's quite a common case.

Yes, I agree with ajohnson.

When I read Draug's thing about the fleet, I assume he meant using a unit to attack the enemy to cut its support of an attack on your convoying fleet. And then using two other units to protect that first unit's territory by attacking it to create a beleaguered garrison.

For example, Fleet Bel-Hol to cut Holland's expected support of Den-North Sea. Meanwhile, Pic supports Bur-Bel to protect Bel from a Hol/Ruhr attack. And also Par S Gas-Bur to protect Bur from a Ruhr/Mun attack.

Another reason is if the unit in Bel is an army, so can't support hold the North Sea, but it can hit Hol to cut potential support against North Sea, but you still need to protect Bel.

Fratricide is not permited.

je ne care plus