The idea of a Winner-Takes-All is so that there will be no unfair alliances where people only play to finish in second. The draw option defeats the purpose when two players decide to eliminate all other players so they will have 17 SC's and then draw. Can we have an option to eliminate the draw option?

That would be interesting but could drag on and on and on

My evidence lies in the game just played where Italy and Turkey were doubling on me so that they could draw at 17 SC's. Although that was not the turnout of the game, but you should understand where I'm coming from.

I'm not sure how many 2-way draws take place in WTA; typically someone will get the solo in those cases. My guess is that 3-4 ways draws are far more common; possibly even more common than solos. Anyone have stats?

A game in which I wish I could have eliminated the option to be able to draw. gameID=14435

Well I have been In a few 17 17 draws but there is usalally a stab... But sometimes it works out

They were going to do that in the aforementioned LanGaidin. They even said so themselves.

Bump. Anymore thoughts?

2 way draws are almost always metagaming, which can be argued to be bad. But eliminating the draw option would cause many games to never end. Most draws are deadlocks, they'd only be broken when someone gets bored and stops entering orders.

About 3/4 of WTA games I play in reach a point where there is no real way for anyone to get to 18, usually because the other players are just too wary of the solo problem, and will just switch allegiances accordingly to stop the prospect of a win. Nevermind actual legit 17-17 stalemates, although those are basically impossible.

Rather than no draws, I'd prefer to see team-wins (a group of countries that have 18 SCs between them declaring themselves the winner).

I realize that there might be some meta-gaming consequences, but I think that if the FtF version can handle those issues, then webDip should be able to as well.

Wow, a huge unbelievable no to "team-wins".

Not a fucking team game people.

Hrm, now that I re-read the rulebook, I don't see the part that I though was there on team-wins.

So, consider my suggestion withdrawn, because it was the ramblings of an insane person.

24 Sc's for a team win are the officail team rules

i have one 17/17 draw on a legit stalemate line... but really, in WTA games, one is likely to stab the other for the solo...

I think two-way draws should be eliminated. That seems like the only solution to prevent teams games like the one I was in.

but you have no evidence of abuse.
Even in the game you're talking about, the alliance didn't hold forever and a draw saved us from a boring finish.
The promise of a 2 way is important in forming alliances, and if there're carried out every now and again, so what

Hey the man reason I keep trying to attack you Zaza was because if I was the weaker one and if I attacked Turkey I would of been fighting two enimes and if I allied with you to stop Turkey you would of one.......so whoevers side I was on was going to win(unless I got in a really good position

wow I can never spell won

How about a Time Limit?

Yes, that's understandable, but at one point Turkey had the opportunity to win because you had no defense. You did well in your attacks on me but then I offered to gain on Turkey and you denied because you wanted a 17-17 draw.

nah I was trying to get myself in a position to defend most of my territories and leave him open in the middle and leave his fleets above you.........I dont see why you drawed Turkey I would of keep that game. You could of had you first win...but then you would lose sooo.

keep= kept

You set yourself up so Turkey could win at one point. The one reason he didn't was because he had a promise with you?

He offered me a two-way draw also but I just told him to play to win.

Then why is there a draw option..(of cousre your title of this thread states you dont want it)...If you have a great diplomatic strategy with another person I would be glad to share the win that you got with that person.

And no I didnt I believed he would move up with me but didnt

More Game Options-No drawing

The title says that you have the option to choose for there to be no drawing. It doesn't say there will be absolutely no draws in any games.

i offered everyone 2 way draws to get them on my side.
i drew in the end because i didn't believe we would ever get the game started again, and don't really like going back to old live games.
maybe i should have kept it, who knows...

so tilMletokill... would you have actually 2 way drawed?

hahahah really dave...............of course

How about an option that, if there is a 17-17 2 way draw, the game will randomly pick one of the two people and give them the win? Check "randomly screw with 17-17 draws". It could be a hidden option, so when you start the game no one knows about it...

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you're that against draws, set a private game, with a password, and the agreement that people will not draw.

Personally I *like* drawing if I don't feel I have a reasonable chance at a solo

I took a 2-way draw in game http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=13158. I wanted really to win. A couple of years before the end I tried to figure out how to do since I felt it was a draw coming up between ET. I didn´t succed and it ended up in a stalemate. I still don´t know what else I could have done...

I hate draws. There is nothing more that I hate than people who play WTA as though it were PPSC. As Cent said, "Not a fucking team game people."

I think it is often more impressive to pull off a 17-17 draw. You have to carefully build up at the same time as your ally and (as long as there's no metagaming) you always need to protect against a stab.

I've had some very enjoyable games where I've worked extremely well with an ally. Which is better: stabbing my game long ally and risk the third player regaining power or taking out the third player, and ending, having played a fun, effective game?

There have been times,of course, that the opportunity to stab has been too good, or I've left myself open to a stab. Those are the dangers of going for a draw.

@Myth- if you moved on Mars (F Pie > Mars, F GoL S Pie > Mars, F WMS > Spa), and Munich (A Sil > Mun, A Boh S Sil > Mun, A Tyr S Sil > Mun) in the spring, I suppose you could have won, but yeah, by autumn, it was too late.

The expected return of a stab in a WTA game is never higher than when it's down to two people. What person would draw in that situation? :////////

@Le_Roi: Nope, it would have made no difference. He had Bugundy that supported Marseilles & two units that supported Münich anyway (Kiel & Berlin) so it wouldn´t had worked. If you look at his orders the spring moves you can see that there is nowhere to break through. No matter what moves I would have made.

i don't think so, `ZaZaMaRaNDaBo`. you should not judge the system based on one game