I agree, up to a point. I think that in a game where a Moderator has to eject people for multi-accounting, that Moderator should make a judgement on whether the game is 'broken'. If the game is broken it should be annulled and the remaning genuine players get their points back.

Personally I like the idea of a draw because the innocent get some points out of it for their pain and suffering. But if someone was already eliminated then they wouldn't get a portion of the draw and that's not fair to them. So maybe it depends on whether or not one of the innocent parties was eliminated already or not.

but then again the innocent parties who were eliminated wouldnt get their points back if there wasn't a draw so wh should even more people suffer

I would quite like to add a 'cancel' option to a game. This would refund *everyone* their points, whether alive or not, and would be used for broken games

I think that would be great.

I think this could also be combined with the /closed idea - banned accounts should NOT be CD, and therefore joinable, they should be just dead.

Or, always force a game like that to be over, a 'cancel' option where all non-banned and non-CD accounts share equally in the pot. An account that went CD shouldn't get a share, but an account that fought to the end and was killed by cheating should

Hmmm. How would you implement that.....

I'm still in favour of paying everyone - after all just because they went CD they still haven't cheated, and so shouldn't loose because of it.

Got a question for you. Is there a way for mods to add a password to a game that has been paused due to players being banned for multi-accounting? In the game I'm in where this happened, someone just picked up Russia. If you could add a password after a game has started then you could keep that from happening in these situations.

Is there anything that can be done for the person who innocently picked up CD Russia because as far as he knew it was just in a great position, when in reality it was in a great position due to cheating? If we do a draw now he's basically lost 60 points through no fault of his own.

Simple answer: no

Italy, who benefitted greatly from Russia's dominance, is refusing to draw after killing Austria, who was completely hosed. If we unpause, the person who took over Russia's CD will start with a huge advantage, while the Austrian will go 0SC and lose everything. Can we just cancel this game or force a draw?

Bump. Mods, please let us know what to do.

Sorry, I'm not really sure myself. Logic says that as Austria is required to vote on the game for it to unpause he won't do. Thus the game will be stuck paused for ever more unless I were to intervene. Thus the two options would be to forcible pause or forcibly draw.
Unpausing it would cost Austria, Drawing would cost Russia.
I'm inclined to force the draw because I have real sympathy for Austria loosing to the multi-accounts, but I can see exactly why Russia would be annoyed at this.
What do others think?

force the draw is the fairest way

Couldn't you just force the draw and Kestas (or someone with similar power) refund the difference to the person who picked up the CD and, thus, stands to lose points through no fault of his own?

@Ukla I agree. Just refund the points to Russia, England and Germany (Since now all 3 havbeen taken over).

Only Kestas has that power and he's very busy nowadays. I've let him know so hopefully he'll be able to deal with this.

The ideal solution I can think of is to draw the game and give Russia a refund. Mods can't dish out points so this solution would require a summoning of Kestas. We'll see if we can't get that.

*mumbles summoning spell*

EARTH!

...Yes, I just did that, why are you all staring?

I don't think the folks that took over England and Germany would need points refunded because they'll get more out of the draw than they put in the pot. I think. It might be close. But Russia is looking at losing 60 points or so. So if those points could be refunded then a forced draw would be best.

Bump. *throws sacred herbs on fire to help summoning spell*

Which game is this D: which countries took over from CD players, and which ones wanted the draw?

http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=10305

England, Russia, and Germany were all being played by the same person and have been banned. All three have since been taken over by other players.

I want a draw because the England/Germany multi-accounting put me in a bad position. Austria wants a draw because he's down to 0 supply centers after the Autumn moves that haven't happened.

Italy doesn't want a draw. Not sure how Turkey feels.

The new Russia doesn't want a draw because when he bought into the game, not knowing things were messed up, he put in a lot of points (145 or so I believe.) The new England and Germany may or may not want a draw.

Thanks for looking into it.

World War One wasnt nullified because of the Russian Revolution... like any good leader, you have to play the situation you face.

Turkey wants the draw for fairness - from a pure gameplay point of view, I had just succeeded in trapping and disbanding Russia's southern fleet.

@Submariner - This isn't a normal CD and takeover. This is CHEATING. The situation Russia and Austria are in is because they were facing not only an unbreakable alliance, but every time you tried to negotiate with England or Germany, you were giving information to Russia.

The game needs to be either drawn or cancelled.

Sorry, I haven't taken any action because I thought Kestas had it.
Please will you get all parties to explain their viewpoints into this thread, and I'll force an outcome soon. I'm currently expecting to draw it, then ask Kestas to pay back Russia

Submariner, I hope you face a 6-account multiaccounter in your next game and get wiped before you can do anything.

hey join world domination 8. 25 bet. one hour phase. starts in 30 minutes

join world domination 8

Dip game spam in this thread?

@gochisox: A) start a new thread to advertise your game. B) ChiSox suck. Mr. Wrigley's park is clean, at least. :-)

Anyway, I'm Turkey in the game. Personally, I'm doing fine since I had just succeeded in disbanding Russsia's southern fleet, but it's not fair to Austria. Draw or cancel the game. I don't want to profit from cheating.

So I'm currently Russia in this game. I joined up not so long ago from the Joinable Games tab on the diplomacy game. I took over Russia because they looked to be in a really advantageous position. I didn't know that Russia was in this position because they cheated. I now have a lot of points invested in this game and I think it would be unfair to strip me of those points. I would be happy to play out the game since I'm in a good position but I don't know if that's what's most fair. I'm also happy to draw the game. I would most prefer the moderators "undoing" the game somehow if that's possible. I also acknowledge that I'm a newcomer to this game and others may have a more legitimate say in what happens. In any case I'm not a cheater in any way and I want to be treated fairly.

Glad you agree with the point Sanateer. Sorry for all the delays, but I didn't want to rush in and force an outcome. Hopefully everyone else will be OK with the draw and I'll push it through, then talk to Kestas about recovering your points. Do people know exactly what the CD buy-ins were? (honestly!)

Guys is there any agreement on what should be done here? It sounds like this might be something which only 2-3 of the players have agreed on, which is why I'm hesitant to start moving points around and halting games manually

All the original players except Italy have agreed to the draw. The 3 new players obviously shouldn't be punished, but they also shouldn't have ever been part of the game - if we had forced a draw before they had joined, the original 4 legitimate players would each have walked away with a decent profit. At this point, I think we just want out - The game was seriously unbalanced byt the cheating.

There was another thread that had Russia's exact buy-in, but unfortunately that thread is gone.

The original pot was 280 because splitting it 4 ways was going to be 70 apiece. But then Russia joined for 144 putting the pot at 424 which would then cause a five way draw for 85 apiece. I'm doing this from memory so may be a point or two off. England and Germany joined about the same time so I'm not sure what each of them paid although it is a combined 128. I imagine the second one of them to join paid a bit more because the pot was that much larger. Either way, a seven way draw right now would net them a handful of points at 79 apiece. Russia would be the only one losing points.

144 sounds about right to me, actually. The number 141 also popped into my head but I think it's right around there. Then again I don't have any record of it, it just sounds familiar from when I was joining this game. I'd really prefer not to lose points considering I blew over half my earnings to join this game (I know I know, I should have probably investigated more closely). At this point a draw would be acceptable to me but only if we can't get the moderators to return people what they invested. Thanks for listening.

@Alderian those numbers look correct to me.

bump, since the game is still sitting.

Again, I'm following this, but only Kestas can return the points. Still, if it's not been dealt with by tomorrow evening then I guess I'll draw it then precise point splitting can be adjusted in the longer term.

I'm jumping on the existing bandwagon - this game needs intervention from Kestas. THe new Russia should be refunded his points and the game drawn for an even split between the rest.

Okey dokey, as long as we all agree

Okay that should be taken care of. By the way the record of the amount bet is stored, so there's no worry about that amount being lost

By the way the question posed by fig at the start is a valid one, I wonder if there's an automatic way to allow players who are victims of multis to choose whether they want to cancel a game

Also, Kestas, please consider the possibility of a /close option to keep people from taking on a CD country.

I think the game should continue with the multi-accounter in CD permanently.

I think the most important feature would be a /cancel option to refund each player what he put into the game and extract the statistics from the database.