Glorius, you sidestepped the point about your considering that it is not theft to steal something if it were something you would not have bought. That is a bizarre line of argument.

As stated above, most of the things people steal are things they either wouldn't or couldn't buy. They are still stealing them though and there is always a victim.

And for your information, there are fake Bentleys in China. So, you can copy a car. A much larger, harder and more expensive game but just the other end of the scale.

I think what Glorius is getting at is that it is a VICTIMLESS crime if he wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

That's it! Thank God there's someone who can take my points and present them in a coherent fashion :P

And Flashman, I have not once said that my point is applicable to all areas of life. Saying that I claim "it is not theft to steal something if it were something you would not have bought" is a hugely inaccurate generalization. If you'd scroll up, you'll see my original point was "just suggesting in some circumstances it's technically not theft."

A legal definition of theft: "The unauthorized taking and removal of the Personal Property of another by an individual who intends to permanently deprive the owner of it; a crime against the right of possession." In the circumstance of illegal songs, nobody is deprived of either the song or it's value, UNLESS the song would have otherwise been paid for.

Again, I am NOT claiming downloading these songs is legal. I am NOT saying that stealing any item of which the criminal would not pay for otherwise isn't theft. I am saying, in some circumstances, the definition of an act as theft is challengeable.

"just suggesting in some circumstances it's technically not theft."

"it" referring to downloading songs illegally.

Glorious, after you download a song, are you leaving it available for upload? If so, you are guilty of being an accessory to theft, as those you upload it to may have purchased those songs in absence of your illegal activity.

Prosecuting those guys we leave China alone?
Going after the CIA for torture while Obama shakes hands with Cuba?

No wonder people get uninspired about our system of government.

More could be said, but why bother...

you do realise it was the SWEDISH government going after these people

@Dingleberry: Nope, I always make sure my downloaded songs are not available for upload.

While a song or movie is being downloaded, the pieces already downloaded are available for upload, no?

@Glor - I know that's what you meant, but I wish people would accept its not victimless

Ah yes, yours was the point that by listening to illegal music I am depriving somebody somewhere of something because I'm listening to my music instead of their radio station or TV channel? While in a way this is true, it could be said of any activity. By typing this now, am I making victims of BBC 1 because I'm doing this instead of watching the national lottery? By buying an apple from Tesco, does the owner of my local corner shop become another victim? Yes, in everything we do someone loses out, and I don't think illegal mp3 tracks are to blame.

@Jamiet, I don't think I have a problem as long as I'm not misquoted.

Thanks Chrispminis.

@trim - Part of the reason the Swedes went after TPB was that the U.S. Justice Department kept pressuring them to do it.

So do people think this verdict will encourage other agencies and the public prosecutors in other contries to take action against these file-sharers?

(I for one certainly hope so)