Ooh, must be good if it's taking this long to write.

France has A in Brest
Germany has A in Burgundy
England has F in channel and MAO

France and Germany both attack Paris and England dislodges the French unit. I know in this case Paris remains open even though the French unit is dislodged.

Ok here's the second scenario:

France has A in Brest and F in MAO.
Germany has A in Gascony (!)
England has F in N Atlantic and the channel

France tries to convoy to Spain and Germany attacks Spain.
England dislodges MAO.

Does Spain remain open due to a bounce or does the dislodged fleet f=prevent the unit from ever buncing Spain?

ignore the "f=". my computer is playing tricks on me =)

No idea... I think it bounces in Spain, but I'm not positive.

The fleet which is doing the convoy is dislodged, so the unit at Brest has no path to Spain, which means it won't bounce the unit in Gascony

Something tells me Kestas knows best...

The latest ruleset does not seem clear to me. It states: "If a fleet ordered to convoy is dislodged uring the turn, the army to be convoyed remains in its original province."

The word "remains" makes it sound like it never left in the first place.

However, in the next paragraph the rules say this: "A convoy that causes the convoyed army to standoff at its destination results in that army remaining in its original province."

Clearly in the second quotation the army has left its province, bounced, and returned back home. However, it uses the word "remaining" so I feel like I can't use the word "remain" in the first quotation to reliably determine that the army never leaves when the fleet is dislodged.

The reason I ask is because in this game:

http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=8030

there is a red arrow from Brest to Spain even though the fleet convoying the unit was dislodged. It just made me wonder what the system would do and also what the correct rule interpretation was.

all that red arrow denotes is that a convoy was attempted by that unit in Brest to Spain. The failed convoy arrow for an army appears the same as the red arrow you get when an army is bounced. Hopefully that clears that uncertainty up...

Kestas is correct. The army never leaves brest and Germany takes Spain unopposed.

And Kestas is absolutely correct in his statement of the rule (as if there was any doubt about that!).

Well, I still don't feel like i know for sure even though logically I agree with Kestas. It'd be nice to hear from someone who had been playing for 40+ years and had allegedly been a world champion way back in the day and who lived his whole life devoted to the cause of furthering "the hobby", as it were, and who basically invented half of the useful opening moves for Italy and who was publishing Diplomacy zines when they still did them with Papyrus and the blood of concubines.

But where are we going to find someone like that anyway? I'm just kidding myself...

The red arrows occur, even for unsuccessful convoys. I made a mistake one of thinking that a convoy had been successful and sent rubbish press to an ally as a result.

If you're referring to Edi Birsan, he will give you the same answer as the rest of us, so you're wasting your time by still paying attention to this thread lol... Centurian is as sound as they come in an understanding of the rules and viable strategy, and kestas is the father of this site, so I doubt you need confirmation from anyone else that this is the case (since the consensus is that kestas is correct).

Personally, I think the rulebook is unclear. It should say that convoyed army "remains" where it is when the fleet is dislodged and it should say the army "returns" when it bounces.

Also, while I'm being critical...

I'd prefer the maps without all the little colored arrows. I'm sure lots of people like them, and I guess anyone who plays a game or two is used to them, but I think they just clutter things up and can cause confusion.

I wish I had the option to toggle them off or something like that.

I'd like the option to toggle press on and off... Reading about Gunboat has me interested, I think it'd be cool if you could just disable press for the game instead of the honor system (not that we aren't all honorable).

Why, has someone talked to you in our gunboat game rratclif :P? If so let him be brought forth in the global chat and shamed, lol just kidding.

No, noone has, but this was my first Gunboat, so I looked up the basics, and decided I def want to do more Gunboats. Until this game is over, that's all the more I'll say on it though :-p.

It certainly is a very fun and interesting variant. Not being able to use diplomatic savvy to win games forces you to think about what the best strategical move is on a turn-by-turn basis, rather than planning ahead with your allies like you normally would. Sort of like an ultra-complex game of chess.

You plan ahead, of course, but you can't trick people into thinking you'll do one thing when you intend to do another. It forces you to think of everyone as your enemy, which can be quite unnerving if you're Austria or Germany, in my opinion :S.

thanks for hijacking my thread you fascists! :P

Hey now that's a pretty serious accusation :P. Painting us as a two people who believe in authoritarian government just because we were talking about a gunboat game in your thread :P?

that plus the fact that your name is "General Ireland" - hehe...

lol well non-fascist armies still have generals don't they :P?

Hey GenIre, who says you can't use diplomatic savvy in Gunboat? It's just a different kind of diplomacy. Indicate what you'd like to do next turn in the Spring and be willing to indicate a support of someone else. Works like a charm and is still a form of diplomacy. I love gunboat for all the unique ways to communicate without using press.

well, explicit communication by verbal or textual means was what I was referring to, but you are absolutely right. There are more than one ways to implicitly communicate to someone in gunboat, and it does make it much more interesting and fun.

When a fleet issuing a convoy is dislodged and there is no other ordered path to the destination (multiple convoy route rule) then the convoy never takes place and the army stays where it is.

Therefore no one gets to Spain to stop the over land attack.

By the way, I generally do not jump on rule questions that fast here anymore because the community has quite a few good rule lawyers and helpful people who respond correctly and quickly.

" I wish I had the option to toggle them off or something like that."
Thats under development Jacob - the code is written and the developer thread on it can be found at:
http://forum.phpdiplomacy.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=81&start=10

thanks figlesquidge!