Players declare at the start of the game which home SC is their Capital city. This cannot be changed throughout the game.

Lose that Capital and you cannot build;

lose the other home SCs as well (all of them) and you become the vassal state of the power controlling your country (defined as the power occupying your Capital and other SCs). You are completely under his/her control. You could be allowed to regain SCs but only with their consent. And, whilst a vassal, you cannot build.

Your vassal status will change if your Capital city and other home SCs are taken by a different player - you then become his or her vassal...

A miserable existence if you are caught out in this way but a fascinating use of power for those who gain an early ascendency. It also places a premium on holding onto the designated Capital as well as allowing for some thought about which SC to designate in the first place.

Austria, as ever, has a hard time, but not an impossible one.

The other point to note is the way that supported moves become harder to negotiate when the target is a Capital city or the last unconquered home SC of a player... For example, much less chance of seeing the polite, 'You take Berlin and I'll support you from Silesia,' types of move.

Do we really trust people not to break the rules?

If we can get enough interested, I will start a passworded game (WTA). Please note though, You could end up playing the vassal for a long long time - so no-one with a tendency to get bored or go CD please...

It will be an honour game. We have played a lot of variants under this constraint and, generally speaking, there are players who will abide by the rules, however painful.

(A) it's not clear to me what happens if my home SCs are not all occupied by the same foreign power.
(B) what determines the order in which players have to announce their capitals? It's kind of useful to have knowledge of other players' capitals before announcing yours...

I'm definitely in :)

Okay, if you have lost your Capital but your other home SCs are 'owned' by more than one player, you can still play as an independent force - but have no option to build;

you only become the vassal when one player seizes control of all your home SCs.

Austria has a real sucky position in this variant ;)

But I'm in

One aspect of this variant is the way that a stab could prove to be successful by just taking out home SCs and thus gaining control of another player rather than needing to be crippling in terms of total SCs/units. Players have to be much more wary of looking after the family jewels.

I'd be up for this.

(If I have enough points by the time you start)

How much power does the conqueror have? Is it just submitting moves, or do they also have the option of controlling/censoring the vassal's messaging and demanding to have the vassal tell them of previous correspondence with other powers?

I'd say the vassal has no diplomacy of himself... he's only allowed to communicate with his master. But it's flashman's idea of course so correct me if I'm wrong.

im game, but only after christams, good idea flash.
but we need to be exactly clear what the vassal state means and when it occurs. what if one country obtains your capital, another country all your other SC who are you a vassal to? can they order you to leave your Sc for you? how can you escape being a vassel?

how about something a bit similar but easier to follow, the captial is the only thing that amtters, once you have your capital taken you are a vassal, your overlord cannot take your Sc but he can order you to move/support hold/move your units he may not take your Sc(or retreat to them)

but a question remains about how one escapes being a vassal? the vassla cannot attack its overlord, if anyone takes your capital then they become your overlord, there must be a way to become free again.

ive wanted to start a variant where the 1st year(two turns) is ONLY for reorganising your home units. you may move to seas in spring but come autumn all units must be on your lands, just in different places(non sc places too?)

I'm in. I'll join as soon as you create the game.

Some interesting points. I will address any outstanding ones later today (just keep looking in).

One I will deal with: the order of announcements for Capitals - this can be done by sending e-mails to an 8th player who will confirm receipt and announce the choices before the first move actually kicks in.

I quite like Sean's idea of reorganising home units as well - maybe that can be combined?

The Re-Org idea may have a little problem... Germany can arrange his units in Silesia and Prussia, or the Russians could be in Finland and StP.
Turkey, England and Italy get screwed the most.

I will join in, sounds a interesting variant. I will make some suggestions re the variant later on. I'm in the middle of a by-election at the moment!

maybe with the re org the unit HAS to be another home SC at the start? or maybe if england, turkey and italy are handicapped we equalize it by saying fleets can move to high seas? too much?

im game if theres space

For how to announce the capitals:

Turkey, Austria, and Italy tell England, but he is honor bound not to reveal until Fall. England tells Turkey

Germany tells Turkey
Russia tells France; France tells Russia

While the data is of *some* use to those countries, it cant really help with initial moves...

So how many do we have?

If you want you can use me as a Capital revealer, so I shan't play in the game.

I don't think that unit rearanging would work. I don't really see that much benefit in it and it would be alot of work to figure out.

as far as capitals, I think that the system you guys arranges is great.

I still need to think through a few details, but I will get back here. Thanks for the interest shown.

Still working on this... Please be patient.

No problem, let us know when you're ready to start.

*bump* - not trying to rush flashman, but don't want the thread to poof

It won't, I copied it for safety. One problem is Christmas. I think this game will need to start after Christmas (which is not too log to wait) as the rules will need to be clarified and explained to make it work smoothly. Anyone who has expressed an interest will be reminded...