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Putin33 (111 D)
03 Oct 13 UTC
Someone explain String Theory to me
Because I can't figure it out. Much obliged.
semck83 (229 D(B))
03 Oct 13 UTC
(+3)
http://xkcd.com/171/
semck83 (229 D(B))
03 Oct 13 UTC
Do you have any more specific question than wanting the whole theory explained? :-P
Putin33 (111 D)
03 Oct 13 UTC
That's about where I'm at.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Oct 13 UTC
(+3)
I'm pretty sure most String Theorists don't understand String Theory.
ghug (5068 D(B))
03 Oct 13 UTC
(+3)
string theory is an unproven theory propagated by the elites to keep the scientists that could disprove their other conspiracies occupied
string theory is quantum erasure

check your privilege eleciscum
Putin33 (111 D)
03 Oct 13 UTC
Where did they come up with 11 dimensions? Sorry for posting in wrong thread.
semck83 (229 D(B))
03 Oct 13 UTC
(+7)
Well, I don't have a deep level of understanding of it at this point (working on it, slowly, but it's not my primary focus at this time). But here goes with a pretty broad overview.

So, Einstein developed General Relativity in the 1910's, right? And it describes gravity in terms of the curvature of a spacetime manifold. That is, you have a 4-dimensional geometric space, with a (semi-Riemannian) metric tensor, which is to say, some way to measure the lengths of curves and the angles at which they intersect. (The "semi-Riemannian" part is because time is one of the dimensions, and it does not act the same as the three spatial dimensions. Curves in the "time" dimension end up having "negative length," whereas curves in the other dimensions have positive length -- or vice versa, depending roughly which coast of the US you're on, but let's not get down in the weeds). Associated to this metric (that is to say, determined by it, but not in a very obvious way) is a "curvature tensor," which tells you how spacetime is curving. And what we think of as gravitation is simply an effect of the fact that the metric is determined by the presence of matter in such a way that, when there's mass, the curvature nearby is not zero, so "straight lines" are not really straight, but rather curve toward the mass. (Kind of like how the earth is curved, so if you "drive in a straight line" on the earth, you don't drive in what we would think of as a straight line -- although like almost every analogy used to explain GR, this one is profoundly flawed). By the way, this is a little more complicated even than it sounds, because I just said that the curvature/metric was determined by where matter is, but of course, where matter is is determined by the curvature (gravity moves things), so it all gets quite complicated.

OK, so that's GR. In the 1920s, meanwhile, quantum mechanics gave a correct description of the behavior of atomic particles, such as electrons, and was generally spectacularly successful; but there were some things it couldn't handle very well, like describing how particles interacted with photons (which are also particles, after all), or generally how we should think of fields, like the electromagnetic field.

Now the thing is, there was an obvious thing to TRY, with the electromagnetic field, but whenever you tried to calculate anything in that way, you always got infinity for your answer, which wasn't very useful. People tried all kinds of increasingly crazy and exotic things to deal with this, but about 20 years later, some young physicists found that the answer wasn't too horribly exotic at all -- you just had to find a clever way to introduce another, negative infinity into your calculation, in such a way that the two infinities cancel and give you a finite number. If you think this sounds horrifying, then you're in the company of many mathematicians; but it's not actually so bad. The trick where you added another infinity (in a prescribed, systematic way so you get a well defined answer) to cancel the first one is called renormalization. The first major theory to come from this was Quantum Electrodynamics (QED), which finally gave a theory for the interaction of matter and light, and incidentally allowed incredibly precise computations of such things as the anomalous magnetic moment of the electron. (Actually, this is often cited as the most accurate prediction ever given by a scientific theory, as to date it's verified out to about ten digits). QED is an example of a quantum field theory -- a quantum theory where the objects of studies are fields. (The particles, like the photon and electron, emerge as "quanta" of the fields, or little local excitations. One of the great advances of QED/QFT over older quantum theory was that it gave the ability to study the creation and annihilation of particles, not just the behavior of particles that existed).

Now, a major dream since the 20s had been to "unify" electromagnetism and gravity, in the same way that electricity and magnetism had themselves been unified by Clark Maxwell: give a coherent theory where both emerged as different aspects of the same theory. By the 50s or 60s when QED was being wrapped up, though, nuclear physics had taught us about two new forces, the strong and weak nuclear forces. Over the course of the 60s and the 70s, both of these were successfully unified with electromagnetism in the framework of the Standard Model of Particle Physics. In each case, one of the big hurdles was finding a systematic way to deal with the infinities that crept up if you did the obvious thing -- although by this time, I am leaping over a LOT of detail, like gauge field theory, and a host of other things.

One thing worth mentioning is that these theories all developed as ways to calculate approximate answers from an exact theory that was too hard to get any answers from -- perturbative theories, they're called. In the case of QED, as we've seen, the approximation is spectacularly good. In the case of the strong force, it's far less good, and there are significant effects from the "real picture" that aren't included in the approximation, so that the answers people get are just close, not super exact. That doesn't mean there isn't an exact theory, just that it's extremely difficult to work with. (Though with computers, now, people are trying to do so numerically, and skip the analytical steps).

Anyway. Through all this time, and ever since, there has been one problem annoying physics more than any other: there is, as before, an obvious way to add the gravitational field (that metric, discussed earlier from Einstein's GR) into this picture. But it ALWAYS gives infinities, and there is simply no way on earth to renormalize it. Hence, there is no consistent theory of quantum gravity, which means among other things that, when studying the very dense, where scales are small but masses are large, both GR and QFT are relevant, and they give radically different pictures of reality, so we just don't understand black holes / the big bang / etc., that well.

OK, so finally, string theory. The reason, as I understand it, that people are really interested in string theory is that they discovered that, if you view elementary particles as one-dimensional strings instead of 0-dimensional points, so that your motions become integrals over a sheet instead of over a line, all the integrals that diverged (went to infinity) before remain finite now, and you can quite easily get gravity to play nicely with the other forces.

That's the good news. The bad news: for this all to work, you have to work in 10 or 11 dimensions, where 6-7 of them are "compactified," or so small we couldn't see them; unlike the other theories, in string theory we have *only* a perturtative/approximate theory: how it relates to any specific nonperturbative or "exact" theory is (so far as I understand) unclear; (relatedly) the mathematics are difficult beyond belief, and so very slow progress is being made on being able to predict *anything* from this theory. Making any predictions at all, in fact, is very hard, and any predictions that are made are at an energy scale many orders of magnitude (I think about 20-30) beyond anything that we can reach at our best particle accelerator (SSC). Moreover, there are 10^500 different equally consistent string theories (so far as anybody knows, anyway -- the math to say otherwise is beyond our reach, at least), and they give different answers/universes, so it's not even clear how one could test it even if the other issues weren't present. (Though there would certainly be features that should be present in all 10^500, I believe, but remain inaccessible for the conceivable future).

So I said before that in string theory, you could get gravity to play nicely with the other forces, and that's true; but the caveat is that it's quite difficult to tell whether those forces end up looking like the ones in our actual world at the end of it all. (Though I believe there has been at least one computation, black hole entropy, which did reproduce the classical result).

I'm not sure if that addresses any of what you wanted to know. My best guess would be no. Also, all of it should carry the usual disclaimer that I'm a mathematician, and a physicist may come along, read it, get very angry, and tell me what-for. I expect I would find the experience very educational.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
03 Oct 13 UTC
+1 for taking the time to write that up, as explanations of string theory go it's one of the better ones I've heard.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Oct 13 UTC
Thanks, semck. Quite an interesting read.
Putin33 (111 D)
03 Oct 13 UTC
Indeed, thanks Semck.
semck83 (229 D(B))
03 Oct 13 UTC
(+1)
The 11 dimensions has to do with the mathematics, Putin -- some of the things string theory requires work in 11 dimensions, but not at all in higher, and not as well in lower. One of the ideas that modern string theory incorporates is the idea of Supersymmetry, which is that there is a symmetry between fermions and bosons (in much the same way that every theory of physics so far has a translation symmetry -- move sideways in the universe and the laws of physics don't change). Of course, we don't observe that each fermion has an otherwise identical corresponding boson, so supersymmetry must be a "broken symmetry," if it exists, but it would still have profound and good consequences for physics. (One of the bad things to come out of the SSC so far is that there is not a shred of evidence for supersymmetry at the energy scales we're looking at, which many thought there should be).

Anyway. Supersymmetry accomplishes great things for you, and this is because of its mathematical properties and the way it interacts with other symmetry groups. (We're dancing over a weak spot in my knowledge here, one of quite a few). But it has different mathematical manifestations at each dimension, and due to the requirement that you get something more or less like the Standard Model of particle physics at the end of the day, there are quite a lot of constraints on which dimensions you can do this SUSY (as it's called) move and get anything useful. 10 and 11 turn out to be the best. I'll quote the beginning of a book that I happened to have checked out, "The World in Eleven Dimensions":

"Eleven is the maximum spacetime dimension in which one can formulate a consistent supersymmetric theory, as was first recognized by Nahm in his classification of supersymmetry algebras. The easiest way to see this is to start in four dimensions and note that one supersymmetry relates states differing by one half unit of helicity. If we now make the reasonable assumption that there be no massless particles with spins greater than two, then we can allow up to a maximum of N = 8 supersymmetries taking us from helicity -2 through to helicity +2. Since the minimal supersymmetry generator is a Majorana spinor with four off-shell components, this means a total of 32 spinor components. Now in a spacetime with D dimensions and signature (1,D-1), the maximum value of D admitting a 32 component spinor is D=11. (Going to D=12, for example, would require 64 components). See table 1.1. Futhermore, as we shall see in chapter 2, D = 11 emerges naturally as the maximum dimension admiggint supersymmetric extended objects, without the need for any assumptions about higher spin. Not long after Nahm's paper, Cremmer, Julia and Scherk realized that supergravity not only permits up to seven extra dimension but in fact takes its simplest and most elegant form when written in its full eleven-dimensional glory. The unique D=11, N = 1 supermultiplet is comprised of a graviton g_MN, a gravitino \psi_M and 3-form gauge field C_MNP with 44, 128, and 84 physical degrees of freedom, respectively. The thoery may also be formulated in superspace. Ironically, however, these extra dimensions were not at first taken seriously but rather regarded merely as a useful device for deriving supergravities in four dimensions....."

Well, you get the point. (Well, probably not, but maybe at least a flavor of the kind of arguments that became important). Of course, people also do string theory in 10 dimensions, but apparently in 11 dimensions you get M-theory, which unifies the various 10-dimensional theories in a nice way and such.
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
03 Oct 13 UTC
I'll have to re-read that a few times, but very cool, Semck.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
03 Oct 13 UTC
Damn it smeck, you beat me to the xkcd joke.
Putin33 (111 D)
03 Oct 13 UTC
(+1)
This was entertaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rjbtsX7twc
orathaic (1009 D(B))
03 Oct 13 UTC
there are really good reasons to model things as strings instead of points, the varying vibrations of the strings end up giving you all the properties you would expect - the detected different particles are then just strings vibrating in different ways... unfortunately a consequence of this is that the maths doesn't work out, you get some nasty stuff which i forget - but only in 3/4 dimensions; infact you can resovle this problem by adding 7 more dimensions, to give 10/11.

And you have to explain away these extra dimensions as 'compactified' because otherwise we'd be able to see them - ie they must be so small that photon of light which we can see (or have instruments to create/detect) are too big to travel down these extra dimensions.

Unfortunately none of this gives us the precise values of fundamental particles of predictions for things, as there are 10^500 possible theories, one probably predicts our actual universe - the problem becomes matching which one is the right one; as such there are those who say string theory isn't science (it's pure maths) because it doesn't make testable predictions.

That problem i mentioned, but can't remember/explain, is explained in a lecture series (which starts here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25haxRuZQUk ) by Leonard Susskinds.
semck83 (229 D(B))
03 Oct 13 UTC
Awesome video, putin, thanks.

Incidentally, I certainly wouldn't want to have given the impression that I excluded myself from the "(Well, probably not...)" remark in my latest post, above -- at the moment, my own understanding of the reasoning in that paragraph remains qualitative at best. I just thought it demonstrated the kinds of broad considerations that lead to dimension choices.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
03 Oct 13 UTC
@smeck - yes, if you failed to explain in simple terms it was only because you fail to comprehend in detail - while i must admit i think your understanding and explaination go far beyond mine; teaching is harder than doing, imho, and i appreciated your explaination and effort!
redhouse1938 (429 D)
03 Oct 13 UTC
I still find it uncontrollably amusing - apologizes to semck- when the spell check / author turns it into "smeck".
spyman (424 D(G))
04 Oct 13 UTC
semck83 great explanation of string theory. Very interesting reading. Are you a mathematician? I don't know why but I thought you were a lawyer for some reason.


20 replies
redhouse1938 (429 D)
03 Oct 13 UTC
Peer-reviewed science
Here we discuss the future of scientific publications: which knowledge gets into which journal and why?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420798/
17 replies
Open
Hannibal01 (100 D)
03 Oct 13 UTC
(+1)
How to Leave a Game
New to this website. How do you leave a game if needed?
11 replies
Open
ePICFAeYL (221 D)
04 Oct 13 UTC
Bettering our lives
Because everybody needs a little more Nicholas Cage in their life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0Og4LaB1Zc
2 replies
Open
Emac (0 DX)
04 Oct 13 UTC
Amdroid Apps you like
Help a brother out and turn me on to some cool android apps you like. I just bought my first tablet, a Nexus 7 2013 32GB and am playing with it.
6 replies
Open
Triumvir (1193 D)
18 Sep 13 UTC
SoW Game(s)?
School of War game/games. Anyone interested in getting involved?
144 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
03 Oct 13 UTC
Washington Monument Syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Monument_Syndrome
3 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
01 Oct 13 UTC
Budget crisis ...... what you on about?
Just another shining example of the efficiency and accountability that a healthy democracy brings to managing a government.
Why doesn't the US Govt just sell Hawaii and Alaska to the Chinese, they should stave off the debt crisis for now.
116 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
03 Oct 13 UTC
Request for Art
Request for video-game theme and concept art donations.
6 replies
Open
mcpaul (100 D)
02 Oct 13 UTC
New game at 7:20
Standard Map, anonymous, five minute phases. Eridanus
1 reply
Open
sirKristof (15 DX)
02 Oct 13 UTC
Possible iOS6 bug
If I have 2 navies adjacent in the moves list then I can't issue the 3rd part of a support move or convoy order in safari or chrome for the upper navy! It's really frustrating! So far I'm just having to choose alternate moves but lately it's really hurt me a few times. Any idea what's going on here?
3 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
02 Oct 13 UTC
This place got toxic fast!
Here, have a puppy.

http://cdn2.allsmalldogbreeds.com/allsmalldogbreeds-cdn/photos/plog-content/images/breed/jack-russell-terrier-smooth/1228238756breanna_story.jpg
30 replies
Open
Sylvania (4104 D)
02 Oct 13 UTC
'Muting'
So... I'm playing a full press game and this has popped up in the text box for one of the other players:
9 replies
Open
Mapu (362 D)
30 Sep 13 UTC
(+4)
Please post your passwords here
Sorry... resisted all day yesterday but couldn't resist any longer.
69 replies
Open
czechveck (311 D)
02 Oct 13 UTC
(+1)
How do you get hold of a moderator?
Looking to contact a moderator. Please email.
4 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
02 Oct 13 UTC
The Masters Update
Devonian has now pulled into the lead (gameID=118381)

Better catch up, folks. Round 7 starts in a few weeks.
9 replies
Open
dirge (768 D(B))
01 Oct 13 UTC
(+1)
what's your favorite war flick?
still like Kelly's Heroes. Western WWII mashup.
66 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
01 Oct 13 UTC
(+5)
Post your bank details here
Please include your account number, your sort code, as well as the three-digit security code and issue date of your credit card. Thanks. If you use online banking please also include your online banking password.
22 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
02 Oct 13 UTC
(+1)
The Jacksonville Jaguars have 10000/1 odds to win the Super Bowl
$10 = $100K payout, place your bets here.
9 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
01 Oct 13 UTC
(+3)
I am offended
The following people need to be silenced immediately because they at one point said something I was offended by:
25 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
30 Sep 13 UTC
(+1)
On foreign policy: Russia and China in the 21st century - redhouse forum item 5000
Ladies, Gentlemen,
For my 5000th forum contribution I would like to propose the topic above. What are Russia's and China's roles in the 21st century? Do the Lavrov-Kerry conversations on Syria mark a turning point in how Diplomacy is conducted? How far will China's growing influence stretch?
10 replies
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
28 Sep 13 UTC
Tricameralism
Can you imagine how much more exciting US politics would be if there were three houses, and only two of them were required to pass a bill?

(I don't suggest this for prudential reasons -- just political spectator motivations).
43 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
01 Oct 13 UTC
gubermint lokdown n f-ekt
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/592/379/2ce.jpg
1 reply
Open
murraysheroes (526 D(B))
01 Oct 13 UTC
Looking for re-match replacements
gameID=123838 just ended--110 point buy in with some pretty reputable players. I'm setting up a rematch--it was a good game--but not everyone from the original game is interested/available.

I've created a 130 point anon WTA which will consist of largely the same group, but we'll need a replacement or two. So far we have MarekP, Feeniks, and me confirmed for the rematch, while Sylvania is out this time. I'll post the others here as they confirm their interest.
4 replies
Open
bbanks2504 (0 DX)
01 Oct 13 UTC
Modern Diplo Game
We have a game of Modern Europe Diplo ready to begin, but we need two more people. Join if you wish.
Link: http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=126848
PW: History
4 replies
Open
Yaniv (1323 D(S))
01 Oct 13 UTC
CUFall13_1G
Hi - if you are interested, I do not mind taking over from Austria but I will need the password to sign up.
0 replies
Open
thehamster (3263 D)
30 Sep 13 UTC
Refusing to Draw
8 replies
Open
Maniac (189 D(B))
30 Sep 13 UTC
Help wanted
I visit a website everyday which holds reverse auctions with minimum bid rates. They list auctions everyday at random times. Usually the good stuff sells out within 10 mins. I need a web-robot that will alert me via email when auctions are listed. Can anyone help?
10 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
27 Sep 13 UTC
(+1)
US, Iran hold first major diplomatic meeting since 1979 Revolution
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-iran-talks-20130927,0,6728111.story
71 replies
Open
Emac (0 DX)
27 Sep 13 UTC
Guess the movie of the quote without a web search.
No fair using a web search.
37 replies
Open
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