It's not about the concept of background checks, it's about government control. Anyone that legally has a gun will likely submit to a psychiatric evaluation, they just don't want to be denied of what they believe is a specifically-granted right to citizens based on a government-issued test.

In short, they don't trust the system.

Tough luck guys, we don't live in an anarchical system, and we should stop fucking whackjobs like krellin owning semi-automatic rifles.

No one has the right to tell you what system to live under if you don't agree with it, SYnapse.

Excuse me? Re-word that sentence because it reads like something completely nonsensical

One of the objections I heard that makes sense is the measurement of mental health. The DSM is a widely-used standard for definitions of mental disorders, but it's been criticized for its scope; nearly half of Americans will have some kind of mental disorder in their lifetimes. There's a fear (however well-founded or not) that the criteria for mental disability may be defined sufficiently widely as to effectively constitute gun control.

@SYnapse, there's nothing wrong with what bo said, stop being a dick.

"No one has the right to tell you what system to live under if you don't agree with it"

Uh, yes they do.
Next?

No, SYnapse, that's why we condemn dictators and allow immigration and emigration so long as it complies with the regulations on both sides. Strange that you haven't gotten that far in your studies.

And why, SYnapse, do you think so?

We should keep Pedobear SYnner from having children, too...but perv-boy is allowed around kids still, too...some things just can't be fixed until after the perp is caught.

ON a serious note...people likeSYnner scare the hell out of me....assholes that think they can determine who should be allowed and not allowed to do one thing or another - not based upon any hard evidence, but just based upon his personal opinion.

SYnner is the *worst* form of human being...a jackass with a superiority complex who is incapable of seeing what a truly flawed individual he is himself....

Fuck off Pedobear Synner...do your wife and favor and divorce her before you and your "not sure of my sexuality"-self brings home some disease and kills her. You should be locked up preventively to remove the possibility of you infecting her -- that is applying YOUR logic to your life...

Hey Krellin stop trying to jack the fucking thread

Its about gun control last time I checked

Brewmachine -- FUCK OFF. Why don't you go after asshole Pedobear Synner, who decided to make this personal about me.
FUCK OFF you asshole hypocrite.

Fuck you you bag of trash, I was looking forward to a *focused* conversation about gun control. We don't need your stupid ass hopping on the thread to start spouting about your random bullshit. Make your own thread about it or just shut the fuck up, thanks

Brewmachine...FUCK OFF. If you want to criticize people for being off-topic, then fucking criticize EVERYONE your bloody douchebag.

I didn't randomly hop on to the thread, you festering fuckwad, I came on and read that asshole Pedobear SYnner the baby-raper decided to take the topic and make it personal about me. SO FUCK OFF. I woulnd't have gone off on you if you had the common sense to criticize EVERYONE off topic, your puss filled ass-clown

But....perhaps youare too fucking dense to gather the point...but I *am * addressing the topic when I suggest the asslickers like SYnner think that OPINION rather than FACT should be the guage of who gets to do what in society. THAT scares the hell out of me.

You want my thoughts on Gun Control...go to the FIRST THREAD that discusses them, since this entire thread is just a fucking SPAM REPEAT of another discussion.

So...with that in mind...I'd tell you to go fuck yourself again, but your cock is well known to be so small as to be unfuckable, so there would be no point to such an insult.

Go stick you thumb up your ass and pretend...there's a good alternative for you...

Both of you *SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY*.

@Brew - Krellin is correct that SYnapse brought up his name first. SYnapse derailed the thread, not KRellin.

@Krellin - You had you jab at SYnapse. LEt it go and get back to the topid of the thread.

No both of you grow the fuck up!

As to the original topic, background checks only catch past criminals or those already diagnosed. Even if we *could* keep the government from using such a broad swath to deny guns, it isn't going to stop undiagnosed psychos who haven't committed their first crime from getting a gun nor is going to prevent guns from getting in the hands of someone who truly wants to do hamr with them. Just like drugs or any other controlled item, there will exist a black market as long as we tell people they can't have it.

"Background checks" = de facto gun owner registration. Makes it very easy to round up all the gun owners and/or seize their firearms (which the Authorities have been doing as a standard operating procedure during natural disasters during the last 9 years) - all you have to do is query the "background check" database and you will have the name, address, and purchase lists of everyone who ever bought a gun. Of course, this does not help at all with *stolen* guns, which should be the real focus if the interest here was really stopping gun crime.

@Draug -- background checks IN CNOJUNCTION with new attempts to have Doctors (not even psychiatrists...but ANY doctor!) being able to report you as emotionally unstable, is the latest method by which Liberals seek to deny you your legal right to gun ownership.

You go to the Doctor for a cold, he decides you are unstable, reports you, and you get denied at the next gun purchase for something you were completely unaware of.

THIS is the problem with background checks - the Libs want to abuse them.

That being said, *of course* I agree in principle with a criminal background check. I also think that there should be a statute of limitations on how long a past offense can be held against a person.

I woudl say black market guns in general are more problematic than stolen guns. Yes, some black market guns are stolen. In fact, most probably are, but not in the way you'd expect. As with most grey or black market goods, the theft are direct from manufacturer or reatiler through stolen shipments, not stolen from homes. And most of our gun violence is, arguably, gang and drug related and involes black market weapons, although sometimes they are a gun obtained from a B&E home robbery.

We need to focus on secure distribution channels to prevent the most likely source of the thefts. Additionally, some are illegally imported without papers and such from outside the US. So a focus on stopping those black market imports would help to. But ultimately, we have measures in place for the latter (they occassionally slip through the cracks through graft and corruption with organized crime) and the former we con only do so much about. It is in the hands of the individual trucker sometimes to prevent the theft and other times, they are the thieves or at least accomplices to the crime.

Tolstoy - you think they need you background check to know you own a gun? lol <laughing at you> Most legal gun owners, unless they are *100%* cash economy in their lives, have an electronic purchase record that will tie them to owning a gun. You are ridiculous if you think registration is necessary for them to know.

@krells, I wasn't agreeing with the checks, I was just saying that criminal background checks still won't solve the problem. No background check can because it can't catch 100% of the whackjobs out to kill people.

So we are faced with two choices. Ban guns which is *not* an effective deterrent as the genie is already out of the bag, or make certain the populace can arm themselves as they choose, the way I prefer it and the way our Constitution is written and interpretted.

Draug - checks it may not stop all dangerous criminals from getting a gun, but it will stop some. If you are going to eliminate background checks because they are not 100% effective, then we should eliminate driver's licenses, too. They really do *nothing* to prevent vehicular deaths...

I didn't say eliminate them. But I don't believe they should be expanded beyond *criminal* background checks.

^ above - case in point. Krellin should not be allowed a firearm.

"Most legal gun owners, unless they are *100%* cash economy in their lives, have an electronic purchase record that will tie them to owning a gun."

A purchase at "Jim's Sporting Goods" or even "Walmart" for $386 showing up on a credit/debit card transaction list doesn't tell you if someone bought a gun or not. Not only that, but when gun purchase transactions are dumped in with thousands or tens of thousands of non-gun purchases, the information quickly becomes difficult to query, and thus, worthless. And I'd bet there's a lot of overlap between 'gun owners' and '100% cash transactions' - certainly much more than in the general population

"Of course, this does not help at all with *stolen* guns, which should be the real focus if the interest here was really stopping gun crime."

A relatively small percentage of gun crimes are committed with stolen guns in the United States. A much much bigger problem is straw purchases.

But if stolen guns are the main source of gun crime - why would anyone oppose laws requiring the filing of police reports for guns that are stolen?

Straw purchases are of stolen guns typically. The black market is almost all stolen at some point along the distribution chain either I. The US or overseas.

"Straw purchases are of stolen guns typically."

That doesn't make any sense. The whole point of a straw purchase is to get around the legal restrictions of buying a gun from a legitimate place.

"The black market is almost all stolen "

That's not what the ATF says. They say that licensed dealers funnel large amounts of guns to the street.

http://www.policeissues.com/Sources.pdf

Meanwhile: ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.2013.301409

Keep drinking the ATF's kool-aide dude. They have a motivation to suppress all firearms so their claim is specious at best and I have never seen any evidence to back up that claim.

I don't know what you base any of that on and I provided you the link to the ATF study of weapons tracing.

I'm on a phone and copy/paste links is difficult at best.

Fine, then google search "Wachtel, gun crime in California". It should turn up.