15. Trade and the progression of those empires, pottery etc
16. Empires of Persia/China, development of mathematics
17. The greek states develop politically
18. Alexander's empire, philosophical, mathematical and artistic developments
19. Alexander dies and his empire is divided

20. redhouse mutes Synapse

somewhere between 5 and 9
Plants begin to export toxic oxygen to the atmosphere.
Cambrian explosion - tipping point reached, loads of new life which uses oxygen appears.

Also, 11 <- was the last of 5 mass extinction events. (though we may be in the middle of the 6th one)

6 <- could use a little more detail here, was it self-replicating viruses (and if so RNA/DNA?), or something similar (like prions), did they have cells or invade cells separately? were there proto-cells separate from the self-replicating bits just floating around ready to be invaded? There are tonnes of fascinating questions to ask here!

12 <- was the cognitive development a requirement of social structures and cooperation? did it occur once or many times? How much variation was there in competing homo species?

13-15 Homo Sapiens followed herds of animals, or gathered edible plants and hunted (mostly fish) -> at some point they figured out how to plant crops and ownership of land/property rights became important, coincident with this, it seems a dietary change reduced free time, and also made for a population explosion.

1. ¿very energy turns into a negative gravitational field (¿dark energy?) and a positive mass content, maybe?
2-3. expansion cools the universe to the point where atoms can form, photons/light is no longer scattered by free ions, (it can be absorbed by the atoms) this marks the surface of last scattering - the transition point where photons moving around at the time can still be seen IN EVERY DIRECTION, (currently called the cosmic background radiation)

Gravitational clumping appears to have occurred around dark matter, which pulled in atoms to form nebulae, stars and galaxies (and probably black holes)

Before 4. Stars went supernova and created new elements heavier that Iron, scattering them in the region - these elements would later be very important in the structure of planets. (and possibly their formation)

Thanks for taking part ora. My greek/roman/medeival history isn't very good, so I'm hoping someone can fill some gaps here as well. I'm good from about 1650 to 1945

"20. redhouse mutes Synapse"

Sorry but that's really further down the line.

"My greek/roman/medeival history isn't very good, so I'm hoping someone can fill some gaps here as well. I'm good from about 1650 to 1945"

Ok, not entirely sure about all of this, but:

20. Romans kick ass, conquering the Meditteranean
21. Barbarians coming from the East (Huns and Vandals?) causing fear among other tribes and such, causing a chain reaction all through Europe.
22. There have been loads of rebellions/civil wars in the Roman Empire, with people fighting to be the next emperor and such. At some point the Roman Empire is permanently split into Western and Eastern Roman Empire (which don't fight eachother as far as I know, and may still be allied, but they are ruled by separate leaders, and act as such.
23. The Western Romans (in particular) can't withstand the hordes of barbarians which were driven their way (by Vandals and Huns, later Goths, and there are numerous other tribes, who all feared the arrival of other tribes, and only few stood to fight, and usually died sooner or later) searching for new homelands in France, Spain and Italy (which is most of the Western Roman Empire at that point) combined with the pretty much continuous rebellions/civil wars there, (there was a new emperor every year/few years) and so the Western Roman Empire fall pretty rapidly, the capital (Rome, duh!) being sacked at least once by the Vandals, but it could have been sacked a few times, I don't remember if the Romans ever managed to rebuild it after that. Anyway, Western Roman Empire was dead.



I think the Eastern Roman Empire lived on (as the Byzantine Empire I think? Pretty much just a change of name though, I think? But that is more of an assumption to be honest) very long, Constantinople was sacked in 1453 if I remember correctly, while the Roman Empire split in 363 A.D. if I remember correctly, and the Western Roman Empire died around 400 A.D. I'm guessing. That's not exactly the first thing to happen after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, so it's not number 24.

I think 24 is the barbarians settling down, doing the landheir-stuff, they pay for protection and the right to use lands of others, if they are of others, and this sytem gets bigger and bigger and I think the Franks are one of the first few to establish a kingdom again after that (that'd be 25, IF I'm right)

You're not far wrong steephie, but theres a huge timeline before Rome becomes an empire, which I'm not up to date on.

The fall of the Western Roman Empire took place in AD 476,you have a little bit of the Roman Empire's history on my profile (the part that concerned my country which has been making part of the Empire for a long time...).

Yeah, the eastern empire wasn't called Byzantium until afterwards when a German historian started writing about it. They just continued being the Eastern half of the Roman Empire (though unofficially it was called Romania, or land of the Romans) for ~1000 years after Rome was sacked; (though con was sacked three times in those 1000 years) One major difference was the use of Greek as the main language over Latin which continued in the West.

During the height they retook Rome and several other parts of the Empire, but the inevitable decline was hastened by crusaders sacking constantinople (even though it was the capital of this Christian empire, and the Crusades were supposed to be about Christian dominance, maybe the Pope in Rome didn't like the power of his rival the Patriarch of Constantinople - i'm not sure, probably ask Dan Brown, he should know...)

It's eventual fall may have contributed to the renaissance, as ancient greek writings had been preserved in Byzantium and these were brought back to Italy by fleeing scholars.

There is also a huge timeline of Egypt and Greece before Rome became a republic...

And what impact did Alexander have on India? what trade routes were established? How did greek culture influence the development of Buddhism (particularly in the ~800 years when splinters of Alexander's empire remained influential)?

I agree. There really isn't much history outside of Europe.

YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE.

25. The Frankish and Byzantine empires dominate Europe.
26. The rise of Islam and the Caliphates
27. Muslim conquest of Hispania (Spain)
28. Draugnar is born.
29. Charlemagne, King of the Franks, is crowned Holy Roman Emperor
30. The East/West schism occurs between Rome and Constantinopole.

31. The Republican National Convention complains about media undercoverage from a number of networks (2008).
32. The Republican National Convention bans CNN and NBC from hosting debates.

@Yonni, people are posting what they are knowledgeable of. I for one would welcome some non-European history timeline information, but it requires someone that knows it to add it. Feel free.

How will non-European history be inserted in to this time line if the non-European historian doesn't know European history?

Specify the approximate Gregorian year I would think, as has been done above for some of the European history.

European history has a habit of inserting itself in the histories of other parts of the globe. I appreciate your concern, krellin, but there's no need to worry.

I think the general trends are more interesting.

Social relationship with wolves allows more effective hunting.
Farming of animals and plants leads to importance of property rigthts.
Excess food supply - from farming - allows urbanisation, trade, concentration of power, and eventually Empire.
Trade requires accounting (basic mathematics), property rights requires division of land which promotes geometry.
Farming animals requires domestication of wolves leading to modern sheep dogs.
Concentration of power and urbanisation also leads to the first religions emerging from magical practices of shamanic rural tribes.
Empire leads to bueracracy and law (requiring writing - probably built on marks made by traders used for accounting)
Religion transitions towards monotheism - with polytheistic aspect demoted to the rank of angels and saints. (this trend seems to occur only once, the judeo-christian-islamic tradition, but spreads globally)

Oh, i'm forgetting women. Farming requires labour, women become a comodity to be managed (like animals breed for meat/wool/milk)
¿Religion becomes male dominated? Enforcing behaviour on women and shaming the sexual urges (to help control breeding?)

Likewise Empires enslave neighbouring populations (both male and female) to be used as labour, breeding, but not food.

Masculine Hero-warrior culture?

Eventually land owners fight for power over law-making and first parliments are formed, power slowly transfers from unelected kings to elected (by land owners) governments.
In China i believe power transfered to bueracracies, leaving several fogure-head Emperors.
Back in the West religion promotes learning, and science (to better understand creation) particularily in Islam. 'Liberal/Humanist' traditions form and slavery beings to he outlawed (i suspect well educated religious people had a hand in this...)
Modern Universities became centers of liberal/elitest thought.
'Liberty' extends to voting rights for all adult males.
It also pushes for colonies to assert their independence (US being signifigant but all over South America aswell; damn did i miss a bit about european imperialism? No we already had Empires dominating other lands, enslaving populations etc.)

Religion begets Science, but they quickly come to butt heads as Science finds that *certain* books aren't literally true. (though how the earth being the center of the Universe became a Christian dogma is beyond me... Is that said in the bible?? Wasn't that ancient greek philosophy NOT christian anything?)

Oh i'm forgetting another big trend; complex organisation leads to the collapse of empires when it breaks - whether that is complex trade relationship or complex bueracracy (particularily in China as many Empires last Only 3/4 hundred years) - when food supplies collapse (through failure of trade and climate change?) de-urbanisation occurs (good examples in south america, Olmecs, i think, maybe one of Aztecs, Maya and Inca, i'm not sure, though i know mexico is not in souh america...) We forget these many collapses and remember the things which have the power to advertise their success!

Monotheism avoids this complexity by proposing a simple one God system (this fails to take hold in Hinduism and Buddhism seems to avoid theism completely, though adopting a hierarchy similar to Christianity, with monks, monasteries, a single head figure etc... In both cases this hierarchy is unrelated to the original teachings of the Christ or Buddah)

Protestantism errupts against the power of the Catholic hierarchy; (this doesn't happen in eastern Orthodox Catholic churches, i can assume it is linked to ideas of liberalism in western Europe)

Economics becomes important and traders gain power (executive) while parliments retain legislative power. Power concentrated in the hands of a few corporate leaders leads to a new type of exploitation, wage slavery. Advertising become a tool of behaviour modification replacing violence/religion as the most influential (law retains it power through the use of advertising, though this is called propaganda)

Feminism begins with voting rights for women (following good liberal traditions); joins up with civil rights movement and unionised labour movements to oppose inequality and oppression.

(there is not much point in talking about Marx, it was Lenin and Stalin who DID things... Also Russia at the time didn't HAVE unionised labour.)

@Oct, that's a bit arrogant or condescending. I imagine there is a lot of non-European history that would be of interest from the time before Europeans started traveling the globe.

For example, when did humans first populate the North American continent? Somewhere around 14 or 15? (Note that Synapse has two 15s by the way.)

@orathaic - I agree that the specific history isn't as interesting as the path of development (if that is what you meant.)

Regarding this...
"Trade requires accounting (basic mathematics), property rights requires division of land which promotes geometry."

Would that have also started cartography? Or where else would that fit in?

Some time before then, as it happens. I was in Canada a few years back when they were marking 1000 years since European discovery.

Still, it was neither arrogant or condescending. It is simple fact to say that there is very little (quite possibly none) of the planet whose history does not include a significant slice of European history to make sense. If Europe were to vanish tomorrow an awful lot of its history would be kept alive simply via the histories of non-European nations.

I imagine Cartography was a requirement of Empire and built on the basics of land division (which i was thinking of in terms of families dividing land among a set of sons) - obviously this isn't needed if you kill a family and take their land, but on the scale of Empire Cartography becomes important for strategic reasons (aswell as administrative ones)

@Oct, no the trade between Empires/Kingdoms across the Indian Ocean (Western African nations, Indian kingdoms, Indonesia, and even China) was pretty much ignorant of Europeans IIRC the Silk road became less important to China as Indian Ocean trade became prominent.

If Europe were to vanish tomorrow... this isn't a 'What would happen *IF*' thread.
And while my knowledge of history has a certain European bias, things like 'trade', 'farming', 'imperialism', 'urbanisation' are not specifically European. Just as Capitalism/Socialism/Feminism/Advertising aren't specifically European.

You see cultures which were isolated (in North America and Australia) which didn't develop farming, didn't concentrate power in Urban areas, and weren't able to use that power in terms of physical violence, being wiped out by europeans. BUT anywhere this isolation wasn't as obvious i'm sure if happened aswell. EXCEPT for the mongols...

You see 'simple' monotheism dominating over polytheism (except for hinduism), and replacing previous religious/magical beliefs. You see science replacing religion in areas of thought (creation of life, creation of the universe, moving now to things like human behaviour good/evil)

You see women oppressed (except in societies which don't have farming, and well feminism has done pretty well at combating oppression in *SOME* places)

I think i fucked up a little on the economy.

I forgot the 'money replaces God' trend.

Ok, there's a couple of trends there; using money to buy your way into heaven (if rich) while the poor have to behave was common much earlier. While the church using religious education as propaganda pre-dated advertising.

Poverty was a thing though, and a some point a new class of capitalists realised they could get richer if people could afford to by the goods their factories produced.

The trend goes from manufacturing in the home to manufacturing in factories (industrialisation) that could be basic pottery and weaving (baskets, fences, clothes) - but the trend of moving things from a local economy (based on rural homes) to a global one definitely brought money into a position of power.

Work done in the home is not taxed, families and households typically share (so they don't need money to get work done) There was a definite trend away from sharing and towards monetary exchange.

People would go out to work for a wage because they had to; and would work hard for promotions, previously (perhaps) people would work hard because it's good for the soul.

However in the absence of promotion, workers felt oppressed by the capitalists (owners of factories) and united to oppose this oppression.

In some places there was(is) a trend towards communal living (sharing) and this became the basis for a political philosophy (communism) - which requires dispossessing the capitalists of their property rights (we mentioned property rights above; but that was mostly talking about land ownership, and that was often dispossessed by violence, so it's not much of a surprise that communists used violence to take from their 'opressors') In other places a compromise between workers (unions) and capitalists was reached (socialism) while in other the power of the free market was worshipped above all else (USA)

Which reminds me i've ignored the 'free market'...

Anyway, this is about money! Socialism uses money to pay mothers/childcarers for the work they do in their own homes (child benefit) turning even that act of love into a monetary effort, while empowering women and giving them a place within the economy.

Meanwhile under communist rule, the Soviet Union adopted a planned economy (the first time this was attempted) and [Russia] went from being a agricultural economy to a world industrial and military power in ~40 years (when they sent the first artificial satellite into orbit) and also required continued use of violence/coercion to ensure the distribution 'as planned'. Though money as such was still used as a common measure of productivity and for targets.

Likewise because of the centrally planned distribution of goods, money was only useful for the purchase of certain products; (more like food stamps in the US)

The planned economy failed to innovate and thus the 'great leap forward', achieved by replicating systems already found elsewhere, failed to adapt - at least in the Soviet Union - in other places that remains untrue. (look at me failing to be general, and getting into the specifics of the Soviet Union...) It was a sui genris or first of it's kind. And the trend of an intellectual elite oppressing workers in a controlled economy without money has been repeated in a few places. (i think that's the only major challenge to money, all other trends are regressive towards sharing and local good swapping)

I think i've also missed out on what money is...