Oh yeah just as the come-everyday salesman is just doing his job.

"I think it's just disrespectful to use a dead person to further one's ends.
The dead are dead, let them rest in peace.
Especially when the Mormon Church has baptised Anne Frank not once, but TEN TIMES in twenty-three years."

THANK YOU.

I only wish I could unlike that post so I could like it twice...! SPOT ON.

Ok, i've slightly changed my tune, because i've imagined the claim that some theists might make that a particular atheist recanted on their deathbed. (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQJ3sqkdCRE )

I would find that repugnant, mainly because it is unprovable. I suppose the same can be said for Anne Frank's unprovable conversion to Mormonism, however, it seems that the Mormons are giving the opportunity to convert, rather than telling people she has converted.

Still, what they want to imagine is no business of mine, I don't want them telling me what to imagine either, so i will go on believing Anne Frank was a Jew, and Mormons are some of the wackiest Christian cults going (apart from all the rest of the zombie-eaters)

The problem is that Mormons have disproportionate influence because they are geographically concentrated, racially homogeneous, and vote in a bloc.

"The problem is that Mormons have disproportionate influence because they are geographically concentrated, racially homogeneous, and vote in a bloc. "

In the words of Sterling archer

Um... Phrasing

?

"The problem is that Mormons have disproportionate influence because they are geographically concentrated, racially homogeneous, and vote in a bloc."

AND, lest we forget, they have a member of their religious cult running for President...

And I didn't care about him being a Mormon, at the start, I just put Romney on par with every other religious politician who's religion, maybe, I don't agree with, but whatever...

I have to be honest--

I already really didn't like Romney due to his views on immigration and other points of policy...and already probably wouldn't vote for him if he was the GOP candidate...

The more and more I read about Mormonism, though, the less and less I'm inclined to treat it as just an innocently-odd offshoot of Christianity--

The fact they were trying to give a Biblical rationale for blacks not being human/not fit to be heads in their church until the LATE 1970s...plus this fun tidbit with Anne Frank and dead Jews...



Puts me over the top--

I already hated the homophobic, backwards Santorum...
And the deluded, firebreathing Gingrich...
And Ron Paul (and I know some love him here, I'll agree to disagree, lest we get off track)...

And now, officially, Mitt Romney's become unelectable for me, 0-for-4...

The Democrats could run a duck, and I'd sooner vote for President Mallard Fillmore than any of those GOP jokes.

@Putin - I get the racially homogenous, but how are they geographically concentrated? You mean because Utah has more than 1,000,000 of them? Utah only has 6 EC votes an the other states with big concentrations only add up such that the Mormons and Ohio have about the same influence (18 EC votes in Ohio). And how do you prove they vote in a "bloc"? Do you have access to voter records? It hought thos e were A) anonymous and B) confidential.

"The problem is that Mormons have disproportionate influence because they are geographically concentrated, racially homogeneous, and vote in a bloc."

The problem is that [Jews] have disproportionate influence because they are geographically concentrated, racially homogeneous, and vote in a bloc.

Over 80% of Mormons live West of the Mississippi. They make up less than 2% of the population but make up over 60% of Utah, with large numbers in Idaho (25%), Nevada (12%), Arizona, California & Colorado. Of the 10 Mormons in the US House, only one is a Democrat. Republicans regularly get the highest voteshare in Utah in Presidential elections. 60% of Mormons are Republicans, which is more than twice as high as the average American registration rate. They also have a much higher voter registration rate, which helps them gain influence. To further elaborate on the bloc mentality, 90% of Mormons in Utah voted for Romney in the Presidential primary in 2008. 52% of caucus-goers voted for Romney in Nevada in 2008, compared to 13% for the next highest candidate, the Mormon wannabe Ron Paul.

And I should say, over 95% of Mormons in Nevada voted for Romney in 2008.

No state in the union has a Jewish population larger than 9-10%. There are concentrations in NY,NJ, FL & California, which is pretty spread out. But yeah, Jewish voters do vote in a bloc.

Yes, yes, Putin... But as Cailfornia's population is at most 4.9%. My color vision sucks, so I'm using the worst case scenario based on the map found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_membership_statistics_(United_States)

So my point still stands. Of those states with a significant percentage of their population being Mormon, the total is about the same in EC votes as the state of Ohio.

While that may be true, I don't see it as a problem.
Mormons who are citizens of the US are eligible to vote, and they can vote for whomever they please.

@Putin - Nearly every major religious group votes in a bloc. Southern Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, Mormon, even Lutherans. Birds of a feather flock (and vote) together and, as it happens, certain religious predilections correspond to certain political predilections.

"Of those states with a significant percentage of their population being Mormon, the total is about the same in EC votes as the state of Ohio."

Yet they make-up a disproportionate amount of the voting public that votes, and particularly a disproportionate amount of the primary voters in Republican primaries in western states. Plus national Presidential elections aren't the sum total of political influence you could have.

If you think they aren't influential in California, just look at what they achieved with Prop 8.

Oh, and the same can be argued about "class" in the US. Working class and academia tend towards Democrat. Business owners and white collar professionals tend towards Republican.

OK, Putin, but I'm with Gobble. What have you shown, except that they're model citizens?

"Republicans regularly get the highest voteshare in Utah in Presidential elections. 60% of Mormons are Republicans, which is more than twice as high as the average American registration rate. They also have a much higher voter registration rate, which helps them gain influence. To further elaborate on the bloc mentality, 90% of Mormons in Utah voted for Romney in the Presidential primary in 2008. 52% of caucus-goers voted for Romney in Nevada in 2008, compared to 13% for the next highest candidate, the Mormon wannabe Ron Paul. "

You made it about PResidential elections, Putin. Not me. So now you wanna backtrack on your statements? Uh uh. You lost that right when *you* made it about Presidential influence.

@draugnar: i thouht that academia was white collar in your terms, and if so wouldn't they lean right like you stated?

You don't need collars in ivory towers.

"You lost that right when *you* made it about Presidential influence."

I wasn't objecting to talking about Presidential influence, I was objecting to you reducing everything to the number of electoral votes Utah and Idaho have.

"Oh, and the same can be argued about "class" in the US."

And people rightfully object if a numerically inferior social class has disproportionate influence over politics.

"What have you shown, except that they're model citizens?"

That our politics is disproportionately influenced by a super conservative wacky cult that values their religious affiliation over everything and that has openly advocated territorial control in the United States.

@Nike - I listed four distinct groups. Clue collar was one. Academia was one. Business owners was one. And white collar professionals was the fourth. Perhaps I shoud have said white collar business professionals to provide the distinction from academia, but considering I don't consider academia to be blue *or* white collar (it's not a black and white world or a blue and white one for that matter) I didn't think to exclude them from something they aren't.

"Yet they make-up a disproportionate amount of the voting public that votes, and particularly a disproportionate amount of the primary voters in Republican primaries in western states. Plus national Presidential elections aren't the sum total of political influence you could have. "

You are a Democrat. You have no say in who the Republicans put on the ballot, so why do you care? I'm a Republican and I don't care about the Mormon influence as much as you seem to.

Then you go on to point out that it isn't just about Presidential politics. You never actually objected to my argument that they didn't have that much influence on the Electoral college system at all. Yet you turn aroudn and claim that was your objection...

I wish you would make your *actual* objections clear at the start instead of making them up after the fact as the discussion progresses. Seriously. You waffle about what you object to more than there are waffles at Waffle House.

Ugh, it's maddening that you can't read what I write.

What I am saying is that there are more ways to influence Presidential elections than just the electoral vote in November every 4 years. Mormons influence who the Republican candidate will be, and slant the party in a conservative direction. I mean no Republican can go to the West now without kowtowing to the Mormon vote & expect to win. They also influence politics disproportionately at the state level even when their numbers aren't that high as a percentage, like California & Prop 8. An issue which you didn't bother responding to.

I care about the Republican nominating process because how conservative the Republicans become effects me very directly. I don't want to be ruled by these far-right wingnuts and the increased wingnuttery of the GOP can be attributed, at least somewhat, to the growing influence of the Mormon vote.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/magazine/28FOB-idealab-t.html?pagewanted=1&tntemail0=y&_r=1&emc=tnt

I plainly stated my objections. It's not my fault you can't read.

Mormons can attempt to influence the Republican direction however they please, it is freedom of speech.
You, as a Democrat and a socialist, can also attempt to influence the Democrat direction. A good example of a voting bloc in the Dems is the Liberals, led by RP.
Nothing wrong with that.

"Mormons can attempt to influence the Republican direction however they please, it is freedom of speech."

Yes, sure, and the country can suffer for it. Just because a group has a legal right to conspire to take over America and turn it into a socially repressive theocracy doesn't mean I have to like them or their plan. Nor does it preclude me from warning about the danger of Mormon influence in America, just like those freaks constantly jabber about the supposed stealth socialist plot going on.

It's a good thing Putin and I take up arguments in alternating shifts huh.

People should really check out the writings of Ezra Benson & Cleon Skousen for an explanation for why the GOP has become a nutty caricature of itself. Explains the rise of an ultra-minarchist Christian fundamentalism that has infected America like syphilis.