and clearly a society also took a stand against those same crimes you mentioned. ever hear of an abolitionist society?

how about a society that says 'love your neighbor as yourself'. or one that says 'honor your mother and father"?

or one that says 'children are a gift and never a burden'.

The privacy -> abortion argument predicates on the idea that an individual is the overarching decision maker in terms of their own body. Where life comes into play has to do with when you believe life begins. Roe made a big thing about "third trimester" which wasn't very scientific and didn't make full sense. Planned Parenthood v Casey established fetal viability, which has allowed states to ban abortions past that point, and most do.

"If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything". Yank your head out of you ass James!

your, damn typo

I believe you mean YANIK his head out of his ass. Ha, I'm not funny.

and fetal viability can push earlier. so there is no 'right to an abortion'. But when do we recognize that right to life of a 'wombed' child?

so, you got the joke.

Fetal viability isn't set in stone. It's a case by case thing.

CAPT, you're going full brainbomb right now. Can you put your thoughts into single posts at a time?

and the assault on Poland and the rise of Nazism was due to not protecting society. even the allowance of american slavery was an abandonment of civilizing society where the economics of the south overcame the pledge of 'all men are created equal'.

Jefferson and Washington were hypocrites in this regard.

i will due my best chaq, but the best way to get me to shut up is to play diplomacy with me.

^LOL

@CAPT Brad

Then please do tell, what is determined as "the good of society" if not a thought, a personal belief or choice that an individual had that simply grew?

Ideas, belief, words. These are the foundations of our society, and of all societies that have ever existed. America stands upon the principle that these are rights that belong to ALL, free and unalienable.

@CAPT Brad

Yes, Naziism was purging society of unideal thoughts. It was for the good of society, by THEIR standards.

Also, slavery had been occurring non-stop up UNTIL the 18th century (depending on what country you observe) so no: it wasn't "uncivilized" back then. You're using hindsight goggles, applying your modern beliefs to their situation.

Individual choices CREATED the abolitionist society. By taking away individual choice for our current system, you are stifling progress, you are stifling human thought, by saying "this is the right way. Trust me, we know this time"

Thomas Jefferson was an enormous hypocrite, that's certainly true.

I remember people telling me that the Bible was infallible and was Gods words. Why did God not know slavery and spousal abuse was wrong?

A good is that which allows growth, understanding, compassion for one another, wishing the other the best because they are other. A family with two loving parents (one of each sex) and children make up the seed of 'the good society'. No parent who is of a right mind wants bad things for their children, nor bad for their spouse. And the two sex parents are (usually) the base for the addition to the family through natural means. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness starts in a loving nuclear family. Or at least is should. I do recognize that there are deviations from this model. But deviations even when able to get by are not the basis for establishment of the ideal. Which would you rather drive on, a new set of tires or retreads? I would say that the normalization of society begins with love for neighbor, self and a higher power. Lose any of the three and it begins to unravel. Just look at the headlines today. No love, no forgiveness, no mercy, no acceptance of the other for the sake of their 'otherness'.

The bible is not infallible, there are contradictions; how long was the flood? There are two versions, one of 40 days and one of 154. And interpretations and understanding can be biased. Moses made provisions for divorce because they were a hard headed people. But the plan was male and female to go forth and multiply and not be separated in life.

@CAPT Brad

Intriguing, because you are specifically choosing a pair bonded society over multi-male multi-female, and over the polygamous multi female single male AND multi male single female

All of these forms of sexual groups exist throughout the animal kingdom, yet you somehow know which one is the best? and don't say "well humans are pair bonded and we're the smartest" because our evolution to intelligence stemmed from every other from of sexual group, our evolution to superior beings was caused by other factors. In fact our sexual dimorphism proves that we evolved due to competition.

In that paragraph that some many would say is quite a good view to have the world, you are dismissing the very things that helped evolution create us.

That said, I do agree with what you have to say. I'm just recognizing that there is an entire spectrum of the world which I could be wrong about, and which we must be free to pursue

And if you want to go Evolutionism v Creationism (I don't know which you believe, not presuming) then I'll let someone else take up that argument. I'm too tired and have too much else to do than get into one of those arguments

I won't argue there. How life evolves is how life evolves. I have no say in that. But in how I treat my neighbor, I have full responsibility. Besides, I like your first name, I share it with my son, my father and his father. A bit of a rut, as one could say. "Me, I go with the wind". "And should the wind change?" "Oh surely the the reich wouldn't permit that."

I have zero idea what those last few quotes were

The movie 'Casablanca', a conversation between Captain Renault (Claude Rains) and Major Strauser (Conrad Veidt). The actor who was the German Officer was an anti-Nazi who fled Germany in the early thirties and played the character in a way to make him unlikable, so his death at the end of the movie was celebrated. Rick (Humphrey Borgart) got him in a gun duel.

Oh

As for a pair bonded society, I see that is better. You obviously do not see the problems when parentage is confusing, such as multiple marriages, non marriages, and blended families. I have experienced them and they are not pretty.

As a child, members of my extended family and for my adopted children, it has all the makings of confusion and dismay. And don't talk to me about my half-brother (conceived in rape). He is a jerk, but I wouldn't deny his right to existence just because of the circumstances of his conception. Nor for my children who were abandoned through the drug addled choices of their biological parents (never married btw).