Game One: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=115286

Game Two: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=115289

Game Three: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=115343

it wasn't me

(that bumped this thread)

.

Game Three is over. Do people want to do EoG's here? To start with, I was hoping to ally with Italy for a good long while, but didn't know how to get him centers early on, and then he turned on me (seemingly, at least to this non-gunboater) out of nowhere... Jesus, Petry!! ;-)

Sorry, MadMarx, but you were getting too big and I couldn't allow it. I'll post my EOG later.

Copied from my notes during the game, so the flow may be lost at times:

1901: going for the opening that has gone well in another ongoing game. No commitment made.
1902: France is busy with Germany, Austria will keep busy with a strong Turkey. All good news.
1903: Turkey melts down, giving Austria two builds as my desperate attempt at stabbing fails. Who can stop Austria now?
1904: Turkey made an unlucky guess and stayed at 3, but man! How could Russia give away both Moscow and Warsaw?! I'm managing at least to keep Austria busy in the Western front, but I don't know for how long. I think I'll need German help.
1905: No SC gain, but I do improve my position a bit. Austria still can't build the tenth unit (all SCs occupied). England is about to die. Russia, Turkey and Austria (!!!) have voted for a draw.
1906: Why is almost everyone voting for a 7-way draw??? Only France and I haven't voted yet!
Austria took back the draw vote.
I win Greece. Not sure if I can keep it. Surely I need Turkey to keep annoying Austria as long as possible. France keeps growing. Luckily he can't build in Marseilles now. I think my greatest achievement so far is stopping Austria from getting a second fleet.
1907: I lose Greece and vote Draw. It's possible that Austria accepts it after eliminating Turkey.
France is growing, Germany shrinking, Turkey will be dead next year.
1908: Russia was brilliant with that blocking in Ska. I may take Trieste at my will, but I don't want to risk my important position in the Ionian. So I'll take a gamble and hope Austria has given up defending Trieste and will move out of Albania just to break past my moving fleet. I can only hope.
And the gamble has failed.
Turkey is gone and Germany has taken the North Sea (well done!), so vote draw already, Austria and France!
[of course they won't, for now]
1909: Cute gamble by me to take Trieste in the Spring, but I won't be able to keep it, unfortunately.
France votes Draw.
Hahaha! Very cool stuff! Austria assumes that I'll run away (actually I would, but my convoy was bounced by himself in Greece!) and gambles to leave Trieste empty so he can build a fleet. Even better: Germany supports me into Tyrolia! I get a build and could even retain Trieste for a while.
1910: Russian purée may be served this year. France, Germany and Austria are in a position to crush it all at once.
So I thought France would defend Russia in StP just to keep Austria in check, and that Russia would also defend that position. Apparently, so thought Austria, therefore missing the opportunity to take StP.
And apparently, Austria is also not so fond of the idea of retaking Trieste, although it's obvious that it will be his again at some point.
France tried to be sneaky, but I kept him out of Piedmont, avoiding a build in Marseilles (yay!) at the cost of losing my position in Tyrolia (bummer!).
Meanwhile, Austria went for Germany in full swing, and might take one of Munich or Berlin this year (it's a gamble). Can I hope to be in a 3-way?
1911: Germany held on strong, I threatened moving into Austria's backdoor - Anatolia! - and it is a 4-way. My big achievement was really stopping Austria from building a second fleet. That's what kept me in the game. Sometimes you have to do something apparently stupid - like my very weak stab on Austria - in order to get benefits much later.

I didnt write notes during the game, but this was what I was thinking through the game take as Turkey:

1901-2: I saw Italy going to Piedmont, so figured it's not going to be a Lepanto - and opened to attack Russia. Comes out it became a Lepanto - I have to say, these starting moves are awesome for Italy - it makes you look stupid for opening by attacking France & makes Turkey feel safe. Consequently, he drops his guard, and boom.

1903: With a rather late turn back, I did my best to prevent the Lepanto. I would say I did okay given my bad starting position - I prevented a convoy and covered up Syria. If they had persisted, they would have eventually gotten through but like I hoped it made Italy changed his mind about attacking me and turn on Austria instead.

Taking Sevastapol was a calculated move - mainly because it was the easiest way of "transporting" a fleet down to Smyrna by getting a new build, which I was certain I would lose later. What I did not see coming was how quickly Russia went down. I expected that Russia would be the one to eventually take back Sevastapol, given his strong position in the north. If not that, I thought he would at least stay strong in the field and prevent Austria from opening a northern front for me.

1904: But instead he managed to lose Moscow and War! This was part of the reason behind my early demise. The second, and by far the stronger reason, is my mistake in moving from Con-Aeg to get an earlier build, or Austria's ingenuity in predicting that. After that I did not only have an inferior number of units, but I also had no consistent line of defence. So I knew it was only a matter of time for me.

1905 onwards: rest of my moves were just an attempt at extending my lifetime as long as possible, and hoping that other band up on Austria in the meanwhile. It was basically a guess game - I think given my situation, I did pretty well - especially until Spring 1907, after which there wasn't much I could do.

Two things to point out about other countries though:

1- Russia was in a very good position to retake Moscow and War between 1904-1906. Especially around Autumn 1905. The fact that he just tried to sit in and support hold in Scandinavia made life significantly easier for Austria. I am glad Russia did not survive for the draw. The sitting duck strategy really didn't merit it.

2- Italy, seriously, I don't understand why you could not contest Austria in Turkey earlier - especially in my last few turns. After losing Greece, you should have gone for Smyrna and Con. He had no naval power and no prospect of getting it either. I have no idea what you were thinking when you left Aeg and withdrew to Apulia in 1907. I still had armies on ground, and would have gladly helped out for a surviving spot in Ankara. You could then take me out too, or let Austria kill me if you did not want me in a draw.

Yes the sitting duck strategy failed. Although to my credit, after my abysmal play and gang-up that lost me Warsaw and Moscow in the first place, I don't think moving hard on Austria to regain them would have been too successful. I would have lost Skandinavia very quickly and my odds of surviving then would have been even less than with my sitting duck play to stay in a relevant position. Either way, I was doomed after losing Moscow/Warsaw. MM seriously outmaneuvered me down there with no Turkey to aid me.

I'd be interested in knowing the other player guesses as to which country was MM during the game. Considering the idea was to put him up against seasoned gunboaters, did anyone think he had the dominant position in Austria?

Well we can see that he was Austria, but I have seen stronger 'victories' in gunboat games - also russia, italy, turkey were quite inept at parts which aided him - in my case I made the fatal con-aeg move, probably because I am used to playing against lesser players, in italy's case it was the failure to use the sea advantage by moving further east and in your case it is the sitting duck strategy - I'll tell you why taking a chance on attacking austria was better: you had a chance of taking mos & war and surviving even though you lost scandinavia. the other way around was certain death because they would have taken you out before a draw in any case. And I think if we were more united, we had a chance against austria with 3 on 1.

@anlari: There was always the concern about France moving on me. Going for Anatolia earlier could have triggered a French attack at the other end.

I'll write something up when I have a bit of time... I'm also curious about philcore's question, as I'm curious how blatantly obvious it was that my inability to take advantage of my strong position was likely due to not being a gunboater. For example, I had no clue if I should, once Turkey was down to two units, and to encourage France to keep attacking Germany to the point that Germany would syicide against France and try to help me solo, if I should slowly and methodically kill Turkey, thus making France feel comfortable that he had plenty of time to kill Germany without having to worry about me getting a solo, or if I should shift at Germany while Turkey still had some fight and thus make me look more vulnerable by being spread out all over the place. I clearly had no idea how to finish this game, I'm used to getting a read on people by chatting with them, and also not used to fighting I/R/T all by myself as Austria and succeeding at it (when that happens in a press game, as Austria, you die a *quick* death)...

Austria EoG:

I had a few ideas on how to open, but since I haven't played much gunboat, figured I'd check out what Master Barn3tt had done in a few of his past high pot games as Austria to see if I was way off base. I wanted to ally with Italy, since I figured my main goal for the first few years should be trying to kill Turkey. 1901 went well, as did 1902, especially with Italy in position to Lepanto and Turkey attacking Russia. Spring 1903 I unexpectedly took two of Turkey's supply centers, which caused me to fear a stab by Italy, even though I wanted to ally with Italy, I just didn't see a way to get him any SCs yet. I figured I was likely being paranoid by defending Trieste that fall, but glad I was, since Italy turned on me, bummer!

Suppose I should have built a fleet right there, but I was a bit nervous about fighting Italy, Russia and Turkey all at the same time, and I guess I wanted some defense on land more than offense at sea, but I don't remember. Spring 1904 saw Italy take Trieste with a fleet, which I considered leaving there, in the hopes Italy would ally with me, but I had no sense if that's how it would work in a gunboat game. If it didn't, I did like a fleet in Trieste rather than an army, so I seriously considered that, but ultimately decided to just take it back. I also wanted to attempt to prevent Italy from taking Alb, so I figured I'd send Greece to Alb, and then Bul didn't have anything else to do so I sent it to Con hoping Con would defend Aeg (this being part of the reason to defend Alb with Greece, to give Greece something useful to do), which worked brilliantly (and was huge for me since I had no idea how I would crack into Turkey without having this happen). 1904 also saw me faced with losing Sev in the fall, so I submitted orders to guarantee I'd at least compensate by taking Warsaw, and I found myself in both Warsaw and Moscow.

I was very happy with Russia's destroy orders, since then I could mainly focus on just Italy and Turkey. I then just sort of methodically worked against I/T, hoping others would realize how slowly I was going and that they would all keep fighting and making each other Mad enough to want to suicide against each other if I ever got in position to try to solo. Didn't happen, but I was pretty happy with how things played out, especially having drawn Austria, I wasn't overly optimistic about my odds of doing well at the start, especially since being able to chat is pretty critical for success as Austria.

One season I had five units attack Trieste at once, while Italy owned it, hoping to communicate that I was in no position to solo and not even trying, but still *everyone* other than me kept their draw vote up... I wasn't overly impressed with Russia sitting and holding year after year, so it seemed reasonable that he be eliminated... It also seemed like Germany could be eliminated, even if that risked a French solo, but I deferred to the gunboaters' better judgement on that one...

I was actually about to remove my draw flag as France (the game drew before I could see the results of that last turn), because there was a possible 2-way available. Until that last turn, Austria had a shot at a solo, and I didn't; I was hoping to turn a 4-way into a 3-way at the risk of losing, and it wasn't worth it. Once Austria backed off from Munich, I intended to do something similar and try and work out a 2-way. Alas, Austria also hit draw, and I don't get to complain, because I voted for it as well.

Everyone had their draw vote up forever, even with Russia down to one unit, so I figured I was being rude to not vote draw, by gunboater standards... I was never really out to get Italy, so I had no problem with him being in the draw, I assumed France felt the same about Germany, and who am I to question how gunboaters do things in a gunboat game...

Suppose I also wasn't confident in Italy's willingness to use his fleets to stalemate France in the Med, either, if Germany were to be eliminated, even if I did something like give Italy all of the Turkey home centers...

Yeah, I don't get to complain about a draw, since I had my draw flag set and if I didn't want a draw, I could have unset it. :)

PS - Thanks for playing, SplitDip, and sorry I used press to talk you into it, next time I want to play you I vow to only wink and "like" other people's comments to persuade you, a more gunboatesque approach, which will at least give you the option to say no.

Game two just finished, anyone willing to do an EoG, please post it here, I'll put mine up in the next few days or so...

DAMN! Check out the MadMarx solo in a high quality gunboat game!

Well done, sir.

German EoG:

I opened with Munich supporting Paris to Bur, hoping to form an alliance with France. France did not send Paris to Pic, so I'm not sure France saw this, but France appeared to at least be neutral with me initially, though France was also neutral with England, as France went after Italy.

I bounced Russia out of Sweden in fall of 1901, assuming this would mean war with Russia. Russia was getting eaten alive in the south, by Turkey, and England was swarming all around Scandinavia in 1902, but I (unexpectedly) grabbed Norway from England (leaving Sweden unclaimed), getting me a build. Since Russia was pretty much neutered, losing both Sev and StP, I figured Russia would not mind me kicking England out of StP and attempting to claim all of Scandinavia, effectively giving me a corner position to then expand out of (rather than being stuck in the middle, surrounded by England in the north).

1903 - 1905 pretty much saw me take control of Scandinavia, while France also was (eventually) attacking England, while Russia just sat and held, which all worked great for me. 1906 saw me finish taking Scandinavia, and also saw England face France and allow me to shift as I pleased behind England, and it also saw me stab France in Belgium, resulting in two builds for me.

In 1907 it looked like Austria would finish Turkey off very quickly, and then come knocking on my door, so I built two armies, shifted one at Austria that spring, and another that fall, in the hopes of annoying Austria just enough to not cause Austria to shift everything at me, but also in the hopes that the Austria/Turkey war would last a long time, giving me time to work on finishing off England and taking out France.

That's pretty much how it played out. Austria refused (or was unable) to make peace with Turkey, to attempt to properly stalemate me in War/Mos, and I was able to grab the necessary centers just quickly enough.

Well first off, great game MM. Once you got rolling, you were an unstoppable force. As for me, I did something that I usually never do which is opening to Arm. This proved to be my undoing. After several years of battling Aus, I shut it down in '07 and '08. Ger was getting huge and I showed that I was not attacking Aus for two years. However, during Autumn '08 Aus decided to give a go at me again. At that point, I was just trying to stay alive. And as Ger grew and grew, I was pushed back to the brink. I finally had to decide that staying alive was worth it and that Ger would get the solo by my holding on. And I did. I put my best effort forth there at the end and it cost everyone the solo. All Aus had to do was leave me be and he could have pushed back. He never relented. And the solo happened. I would really like to hear what achilles has to say about the last few years and if he has a different take than I do.

gameID=115289... MM already gave my EoG (I was Russia...). Turkey took armenia first move and Germany followed with a bounce in Sweden and england took Barents while landing his army in Norway... smells like game over for me and it didn't smell like roses. Five more years of depression followed until I was finally euthanized...

gameID=115286 Finished

3 way draw: 2WL/guak/MM/

This was a fun match, although I won't miss the "no readying" rule.

Germany holding in Munich in 1901 gave me an unexpected three builds, but Germany did a nice job of feigning a Russian attack with his builds. I jumped on the English move to Barents, which I don't really like if I'm playing England, I build two fleets, and seeing the German army in Berlin, thought I was set. I foolishly continued my attack on England after Germany made a move against me in 1902, but I got lucky after that devastating English stab in F1903.

With Germany fading quickly and Italy committed to a renewed Lepanto, I also renewed my attack on England, hoping that Germany would put up a stiff resistance. Tunis proved too tempting, though, although my transition from English enemy to ally could have been handled a bit better. Once England became the board leader, though, I became wary of a stab and moved to fortify Brest and Belgium, which was a risky move, building the third fleet in the north while I was otherwise occupied in the south. Had Austria not been busy with Turkey, I could have easily ended up grasping at Spain and Portugal while England moved on for the solo. With Austrian help, though, I managed to repel an English attack with minor losses just in time to throw up the stalemate and hold off Austria.

Mad Marx is one of the best gunboaters I've seen on the site. And he plays it with such passion,I knew he was a heart&soul gunboater all the time. He LOVES this game!

Thanks for taking the time to patronize me Split, much appreciated! ;-)

I'm proud of my showing in these three games: a solo, a three-way and a four-way. I'm especially pleased with the three-way against the best competition, it started out a bit bleak with Italy screwing with me (EoG coming shortly), but when you draw Austria and see Italy/Russia/Turkey eliminated, you'd like to think you've done at least something right.