Jaime, When you got hired as a deputy manager I take it you had previous experience in the field. Did you think that the hotel would stay open forever? How long had the hotel been there? Had it ever changed hands? Did you follow the tourism and economic news to spot trends? Had the chain ever closed or sold properties before? Was the stock price going up?
To get to particulars you say that the company announced booking problems? Did you follow up on this yourself? Did it not bother you that your management was secretive? Did you not realize that people don't keep good news secret?
So with the information that bookings were down and secretive behavior you say they "suddenly" cut costs. You had no backup plan. You hadn't shopped your resume anywhere? So it's totally someone's else fault that you are unemployed?

I worked three different jobs part-time in an industry because it was hard to find full-time gigs, and I liked the insurance of three different firms. I wouldn't be out of work unless all of them collapsed and part-time gigs were easier to find than full-time ones anyway. Sure it was a hassle juggling schedules, and my social life sucked because I couldn't make plans, but when job ended I wasn't out of work. I also always kept my ear to the ground for any opportunity because I knew that my jobs wouldn't last forever.

So yes, it is your own fault if you find yourself out of work. If you put all your eggs in one basket you can get hammered. If you don't recognize the warning signs you can get hosed. If you aren't constantly looking for a way up or out you can end up on the short end. Jobs are like boxing. Protect yourself at all times.

It always amazes me when those on the far economic right fail to recognise that full employment is a socialist myth. There will ALWAYS be unemployment - even if temporary. And given that the very system we embrace requires a level of free labour to be functional, it would seem right and proper that there is a basic level of subsistence provided for those unfortunate enough to not be earning at any given time. It should always be better to be in work though.

And we should also realise that a persons circumstance in life is due to a combination of both them and their environment, not exclusively one or the other. People form poor backgrounds may excel, and the well off may crash and burn, but the outcomes for the wealthy are significantly better on average than for the poor. This is not because being born poor gives you some genetic disadvantage, but because it restricts your opportunities. It's not an excuse, it's an observable fact.

No man is an island, after all. The choices I make have an impact, but so do the actions of others, including corporations and governments, as well as other individuals.

The solution is to lift up, so that everyone can make the most of their innate abilities, to remove the negative impacts of the environment without penalising those in an advantageous position, and to ensure that work pays, but a safety net exists.

"So yes, it is your own fault if you find yourself out of work."

Working part time jobs is MUCH different than having a full time salaried position. When you graduate school and get a real job, you'll realize that most employers don't appreciate when you continually shop around applications and resumes to competitors. A part time job gives you the flexibility to do so, but a full time job is an investment on your part in the company. If you get a job, you have a reasonable expectations that you'll be able to keep that job for as long as needed, whether its a first job out of school or a long term career. You don't switch jobs on a whim in the real world.

@ Emac: Which industry? What is your job?

2wl, I completely disagree that "you have a reasonable expectation that you'll be able to keep the job for as long as needed." I've been with my current employer full-time for over a decade and I don't assume that at all even after this time. .
Jaime, I don't care to talk about the particulars of my personal life in this forum.

I'm aware of an organization where a director committed several crimes that brought into disrepute, damaging the career prospects of many of its employees. I'm also aware of several organizations and companies that seemed very stable but were completely ruined by hurricanes and earthquakes.

And, of course, sometimes the economy is shitty. Unfortunately, you really can't expect to keep a job for as long as you need it, even those of the full-time salaried variety.

In the United States, employees have many legal protections that prevent them from being terminated without just cause. A company that fosters an environment of insecurity and high turnover isn't going to be successful.

@Stackel

Why weren't those people whose companies were destroyed by hurricanes watching the weather channel 24/7? Weren't they taking courses in meteorology on the side? Why weren't all their supplies in secret underground bunkers. They really should take responsibility for not being able to control the weather.

They probably should have taken the hurricane to the NLRB. I bet they would have found a remedy.

2wl, most US companies can fire at will and the United States and their success is evident. Abge, did those companies pay for insurance? Did they put plywood over their windows? Did they evacuate? Did they move inventory if they expected to get flooded? If you live in California and do not pay for earthquake insurance is that responsible?

You know it can takes *years* to process insurance claims after large natural disasters, right?

Also, I doubt I'd have my job for long if I was constantly asking my boss what we'd do in the event of an earthquake. Well, I mean, *my* job is in data recovery, so I actually do know what we'd do in the event of an earthquake. But, in general...

@Emac

Serious scenario:


I'm a fisher in Louisiana. I work 60 hours a week and make just enough to pay my bills and feed my family. BP comes along and overnight the fishing industry is destroyed. I try to mitigate my income doing shore cleanup with my boat, but it isn't paying the bills. I'm expecting money from BP which I'll use to move my family, but years later it's still caught up in litigation.

How is that my fault?

Should of been saving on the side or of gotten a second job Abge. It's silly to think otherwise.

@Emac No there are laws preventing companies from just firing at will. They have to have a reason for it.

celticfox, I don't know where you live, but you can fire at will in California in private sector, non-union jobs.

abge, you have a number of false premises. "Just enough to pay my bills." You need to cut your bills. Anyone who spends every dime they make and doesn't save for the future in any way is not a responsible adult. You don't have business insurance Abge? You aren't married? Your wife doesn't work? You keep proposing scenarios filled with irresponsibility. Life isn't nice abge. If you don't prepare for the worst you are an irresponsible individual plain and simple. The problem of course is that the vast majority of people don't think about tomorrow or the worst case scenario at all. It is your fault for thinking that the worst thing can't happen and not doing everything you can to prepare for that eventuality. This is what responsible individuals do.

Abge, how do you look your kids in the face and tell them your ruined because you didn't think anything bad would happen when the person across the street from you who had the exact same income, the exact same job, and suffered the exact same calamity that you did has food for their kids and makes it through because they lived in a small house, drove and older car, didn't have cable, didn't eat out, saved money, and bought insurance. Then you walk across the street and have the unmitigated gall to claim nothing is your fault.

@Emac Not in Illinois at least.

So someone working at Verizon in Chicago can't get laid off tomorrow.

@Emac "I don't care to talk about the particulars of my personal life in this forum."

No but you seem happy enough to tell everyone else how to live theirs you hypocrite

I'm telling you how to live your live Nigee? I'm telling abge or 2wl or celtic? Please show me the post where I tell anyone in this thread how to live their life. If the you disagree with the principles I'm talking about then make your argument. Otherwise you are just a fucking, lifeless troll.

Steady on with your swearing ...... makes you sound like you've got emotional issues

Nigee, I learned these lessons living in the country as a kid. Whenever the danger of frost was gone you planted as soon as you could because if you waited around it might rain and you might now get your crops in for another month. Harvest was the worst because if you waited to let your crops ripen you might be more bushels to the acre, but if bad weather hit you might not get into harvest for weeks and lose a significant portion. Everything was about choices. No one put up with bullshit excuses. You made your choices and you lived with the results. Everyone knew you better save for a drought or a flood because it wasn't a question of if it would happen it was only a question of when. So anyone who made excuses and didn't plan for the proverbial rainy day was shunned by those who went without and didn't put things off so they would be prepared for the worst. All of this made the good times all the sweeter as well. So you can take your whining excuses and bullshit and shove them up your ass.

I don't think that comma had to be there.

And yeah, you're basically saying that if anything bad happens to you, its your own fault no matter what.

So the kid born in a decaying urban wasteland, its its own fault he dropped out of his mother's pussy in the ghetto and was born poor. Its his own fault that his school is a decaying shithole because society has pretty much written him off as a loss from the moment he started breathing.

Going back to the original topic, you're saying that if that person, instead of dealing or gangbanging, tries to go get a shit job for 40 hours a week because he'd rather at least try to work... you're saying, fuck you. You'd rather enable a business to pay less than a living wage, and force you and I, taxpayers, to foot the difference and deal with the consequences?

Fuck you, man. I'd rather reward somebody who is at least willing to put in a full day's work, even if its a shit job.

Clearly its their own fault they were born poor. They should have known from the beginning that their mom and/or dad was poor, and had the foresight to apply for a transfer to a rich person's uterus.

Clearly.

Not for no reason Emac. An employer has to have a just cause for terminating someone's employment. I can't just be fired at Starbucks.

When a person can only understand humanity with their very limited world view based on their limited personal experiences I find it so ignorant and sad.
Emac you are pig-ignorant and with your last post you've just explained why?
How many other countries have you ever visited?
You sound like a farmer who's been given his first pc and access to the tinternet and you wear your limited intelligence like a dunces cap.
Trust me your on a website now with people who have been going to school for years, some even have degrees.
I'm not saying you have to have intelligence to be on the forum but I can't help but think in your case it would really be a great asset.
Those ears of yours were for listening, not sticking carrots in you buffoon.

@CF is trying to set up a union just cause?

CelticFox,, you are mistaken. Verizon hands out pink slips anytime they want. I know people laid off by them in Chicago. We no longer require your services. Here is two weeks severance and good luck to you.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/26/news/companies/verizon_layoffs/

Also-Right to fire. Employees in Illinois are deemed to be employed at will, which means that an employer can fire an employee for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all. http://www.leadinglawyers.com/helpdesk/display_description.cfm?id=41488

Nigeebaby "understand humaninty." I guess you can't smell what you are shoveling.

"there are laws preventing companies from just firing at will. They have to have a reason for it. "

Well it does depend on the state, but Emac's verizon example is bogus because a layoff isn't a firing and they have to pay benefits and partial salary above unemployment in most states for layoffs.

A lay off isn't a firing Draugnar? And beside the point Illinois is a right to fire state.
Just because you get severance doesn't mean you aren't fired.