I am not a GOP guy, so please, dont go there. I have some huge issues with the GOp (well, shit the entire government if you must know), so I am not part of their little gang, nor have I been so for a long time. The last president I liked even a little was Clinton, just to give you an idea.

What example do you want exactly?

btw Obi, I will say this about you. You and I are capable of very very good, civil conversations. We have had quite a few, and usually Putin runs in and fucks them up, so I dont want to get into a pissing match with you, cuz you are quite capable of meeting in the middle, so please, dont think i am going after you for everything, we just have that one example.

"What example do you want exactly?"

Any one you want to give.

"btw Obi, I will say this about you. You and I are capable of very very good, civil conversations. We have had quite a few, and usually Putin runs in and fucks them up, so I dont want to get into a pissing match with you, cuz you are quite capable of meeting in the middle, so please, dont think i am going after you for everything, we just have that one example."

Fair enough.

Ok I'll bite. Again. The argument that racism is racism is racism no matter who it's targeted against ignores the dimension of social power. Maybe there's prejudice on both sides of the aisle but one side is relatively immune to suffering from it. I'll believe that whites are as oppressed for their whiteness than anyone else, when 1 in 9 whites are incarcerated in prisons. I'll believe that when the unemployment rate for whites is the same as that for blacks. I'll believe it when the life expectancy for whites is the same as for blacks. I'll believe it when infant mortality is equal. I'll believe it when there's no appreciable economic disparity between whites and blacks. And even then, I'm being generous, because I'd be ignoring a racist history that the USA seems unable to escape. I'd be ignoring a culture which continually paints black men as dangerous, and as criminal. The charge of double standard here is unwarranted. Because only one side of this debate actually suffers any real oppression.
So you can take your reverse racism bullshit, and get the fuck out of my face.

"Santa, you fucking liar. I never said that, I simply said "how hard is it to do that" Fucktard liar again.

There is 1000s' of people tthere, is it not POSSIBLE?

How many staffers are there, and how many crew techs for liberal media outlets, etc.

Give the libs SOME credit, they could 100% pull this simple shit off if they wanted.



Give me the 2 names of these guys, who were kicked out for throwing nuts at some people. is it THAT hard to get names? "

Yeah because they were kicked out and the republicans swept the whole thing under the rug you dumbshit.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-08-05/politics/30026732_1_black-kids-black-couple-young-black-men

Here ya go obi. Now just swap the words 'white' and 'black' and tell me what the MSM would have done with this.

i tried to find a unbiased site for this, and I have never heard of 'businessinsider' but, it was on some conservative sites also.

here is another one Obi. called 'beat whitey night' at the Iowa state fair.

You can google that and find a lot of links, I just linked this one for ya.

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/beat-whitey-night-a-smashing-success-at-iowa-state-fair/

Again, swap the words around of color, and tell me where this goes.

@Stressedlines:

1. A REPUTABLE news source, if you please.

2. If they were out to beat white folks, then yes, racism, ugly...and so is throwing peanuts at a black woman and calling her an animal.

Both are ugly and racist, so...? I'm not saying white people have a monopoly on racism, there are racist blacks and Latinos and Asians and everything else out there, I'm sure, and I don't and did not deny that.

3. Again, a reputable source would be welcome before (no pun intended) I view this as a black-and-white case of racism.

Pun was too intended :). You smart SOB, you know you could have used "clear cut" or "straightforward" or "indubitable" :P

"1. A REPUTABLE news source, if you please."

Will local TV news suffice?
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/126825018.html

Ain't it curious that racial mob violence of this size got ZERO coverage in the national media? There are actually a fair number of stories like this in recent years.

@Mafia - I am *so* tired of your excuses and declaring niggers attacking whites isn't racism even whent eh reason for the attack is color. It's no different when a honkey attacks a black person. Notice I said nigger and honkey both. Racist whites are honkeys and racists blacks are niggers. There is no two ways about it. But, as I said, I'm *so* tired of your giving them a pass that I'm providing the *official* webster's definition below. Please note that there is no "superior numbers" or "repressed group" in the definition at all.

Definition of RACISM

1 a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 racial prejudice or discrimination

And in case you don't accept the Merriam-Webster definition, here is the definition from the Oxford dictionary.

Definition of racism
noun

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior: a program to combat racism



Note that this to has *no* mention of repression or inferior numbers/social standing or any of the other bullshit you use as an excuse to let the niggers do their damage.

These are two of the most famous and definitive dictionaries of the English language. If you don't accept their definition, then we have nothing more to talk about because your excuses for nigger racism makes you one of them. Id on't make excuses for honkey racism, but you sure as fuck think "whitey" gets whatever is coming to him and that makes *you* a nigger, whether your skin is black, white, yellow, or red.

Defining racism using the dictionary is like defining socialism using the dictionary. It is a starting point and not the full depth of a much broader concept.

@Tolstoy:

OK, that seems legitimate...I still myself wonder if there isn't maybe more to this story (if it was gang-related--they seem to think it was not--or if someone said something to set things off) but OK, yeah, if that is the case as reported...

Yeah, blacks beating whites is as wrong as whites beating blacks, it's racism and it's wrong.

...

Is that the end of the discussion? Where was this whole example meant to lead to?

@smcbride:

"Defining racism using the dictionary is like defining socialism using the dictionary. It is a starting point and not the full depth of a much broader concept."

I agree completely there.

"Is that the end of the discussion? Where was this whole example meant to lead to?"

Someone throws some peanuts and says something not very nice: wall-to-wall 24 hour nationwide news coverage.

Dozens of perpetrators attacking everyone in sight who happens to be of the wrong race: a two minute throw-away story on a local news station in Iowa.

Why do I get this feeling that some people believe this is as it should be?

Oh fuck you. Honkey is not in any way equivalent to any racial slur applied to black people of any kind. Why? Because once again, POWER DYNAMICS MATTER. For what it's worth I'm sick and tired of hearing you claim that you're the victim of racist oppression. You fucking aren't. Stop being such a god damn whiny baby, grow the fuck up, and take some responsibility for the racist ass society in which you live.

Should the victims of that attack in Wisconsin take responsibility for being attacked because they live in a racist society? Because that's the full extent of the "wrong" we know the victims of the attack did.

I thought you of all people wouldn't stoop to victim-blaming, Mafia.

Tolstoy thinks whitey is under the heel of Hispanophone and African Americans in America. That's why white males have a 1 in 3 chance of going to prison, and whites are being asked for their identification solely because they are white. Oh wait...

The only act of racist violence Tolstoy and the Paulites have ever concerned themselves with is the one in Wisconsin last year, everything else is media hype by the commie-pinko-Jewish media, isn't that right, even though there have been countless acts of violence against minority youths this year alone, by the *state* no less?

I guess the state isn't evil if it's killing black and latino youths.

Christ. Wrong is wrong is wrong. It does not matter to which race attackers and to which race victims belong - wrong is wrong is wrong. That there are attackers of one race doing wrong things to victims of another race does not mean it is right for attackers of the other race to do wrong things to victims of the first race.

Throwing peanuts and racist taunts at people is wrong.
Attacking innocent people is wrong.

If you find yourself defending either, you are in need of serious re-evaluation of your moral compass.

Mafia is a racist. Haven;t you figured that out? And to make himself feel better, he uses the excuse that all white people have it coming because they were born white.

If you're claiming that one act where whites were legitimately the victim of racist violence negates the overall societal trends, you're being completely dishonest in order to stoke the flames of white grievance.

No, Putin, you're actually completely wrong. I've even posted a thread not four pages back decrying the specific thing you're saying we don't decry. Unlike you, a so-called defender of women who still worships the Red Army as though it didn't perpetrate a systemic rape and genocide campaign against German, Polish and Hungarian women in 1944 and 1945 - to cite only one example of your repeated and well-known blatant moral hypocrisy - I am consistent in my application of my moral principles.

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=909392#909392

But yet you keep ignoring Mafia's main point about social power. Why is that?

And no, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is crystal clear.

It is wrong to excuse wrong. That means no excusing the blatant racism in our society against non-whites, blatant sexism against women, blatant discrimination against people who aren't heteroromantic heterosexuals, against non-Christians, against any marginalized community.

That also means no defending morally wrong actions by marginalized peoples, as much as it means no defending morally wrong actions by non-marginalized peoples.

There's no further agenda than that. I know you'd like to think there is, to have some pathetic distraction to get away from the fact that you're an egregious moral hypocrite, but there isn't. That's all there is. Do right, to everyone, regardless of who they are or what they can be defined as; and fight wrong done to anyone regardless of the same.

I'm not ignoring it. In fact, I agree with it. I've said so in the previous post and would be fine with expounding on that if you doubt it, but I figured I had previously demonstrated my credentials as someone who understands the power dynamics of the USA and had, further, stated some specific things that can be done to help fight it (ending the racist and stupid drug war, for instance).

That doesn't mean I can't turn around and criticize him for apparent defense of wrongful action.

I didn't say you said anything, I said you're ignoring (and distorting) Mafia's main point. Where was Mafia 'excusing' any horrible crime? You're just inventing straw men and spewing invective, because you can't engage without being overemotional and shrill.

The fact is nobody has acknowledged Mafia has a point about social power, and that racism is rooted in the issue of social power, so what people are doing is engaging in false equivalence.

Except that's not what Mafia did, try reading what he wrote.

"Tolstoy thinks whitey is under the heel of Hispanophone and African Americans in America."

Huh? When have I ever said or suggested anything of the sort? I actually think it's hilarious that everyone considers Barack Obama black when he's actually half white, grew up with his white grandparents, and is as big a beneficiary of the "white privilege" that came with his grandfather's CIA connections as any blue blooded New England WASP who graduated from Columbia.

"whites are being asked for their identification solely because they are white."

Well, I don't know if it is because I'm white or not, but cops have demanded to see my ID in every interaction with them I've ever had, aside from that time I was given a ticket in middle school for riding my bicycle on the sidewalk instead of the street. Maybe if I weren't white, they would've demanded to see my ID twice?

"The only act of racist violence Tolstoy and the Paulites have ever concerned themselves with is the one in Wisconsin last year"

Actually, I'm concerned about these, too:
http://hamptonroads.com/2012/05/beating-church-and-brambleton
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_5095169
http://newmediajournal.us/indx.php/item/6128
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f97_1345658210
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/09/15/motive-unclear-in-attack-by-group-of-teens-on-16th-street-mall/
http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/portland-parkgoers-attacked-by-150-black-teens/

"I guess the state isn't evil if it's killing black and latino youths."

It is evil. In fact, I started a thread years back here about a latino who was shot six times by a sheriff's deputy two miles from my house. I started another about a latino homeowner who called the police after he'd caught a home invasion robber; the police showed up and shot the homeowner nearly to death. I did not hesitate to call the shooting of Oscar Grant a cold-blooded murder on these very pages. I'm sure there are others. Like my annual Waco remembrance thread (where more than half of the dead killed in the initial ATF assault and subsequent FBI gassing/fire were non-white). When the State murders people, it is wrong. I really don't give a crap about the melanin levels of the victim (or perpetrator, for that matter).

"But yet you keep ignoring Mafia's main point about social power. Why is that?"

Um... probably because it's ridiculous. If you've got 12 people on top of you beating the snot out of you because of your low melanin levels, the white privilege fairy isn't going to help you. You want to talk about racial disparities in the criminal justice system (which I'm surprised Putin is bringing up, since this is in large part due to drug prohibition - which Putin tells us isn't really racist), the racial effects of government regulations, or military recruitment targeting of minor communities, I'll be right there with you. But to suggest that non-whites are perpetual victims at every turn of an inherently racist society and cannot possibly survive without enlightened white liberals such us yourself giving them government handouts is far more insulting than anything I've ever written here.

On a personal note - my cousin (who is white - I have to specify, since (while it may be 'obvious' to Putin) here in multiracial Southern California (unlike lily-white Ohio), multiracial marriages/unions are very common. I have several cousins who are half Hispanic or Jewish. Love, it seems, really is blind. At least, when it comes to race.) and a friend were beaten, pistol-whipped, robbed, and threatened with execution by black gang members because they were white and walked through a "black" neighborhood on their way home a few years ago. Apparently Putin and Mafia thinks there was nothing wrong with this on account of the "white privilege" they enjoy, but are outraged - OUTRAGED!!! - by some yahoo who threw a couple of peanuts at a CNN camerawoman who probably makes 5 times what my cousin does delivering baked goods to convenience stores.