So, I've heard concerns about making the top too cuttthroat. I'd like to discuss some of this. I want this to be fun, challenging, and rewarding... The only thing set in stone is the Premiere, A, and B leagues being 14 (Open at 7 is an interesting idea) and that the games are non-anon.

So let's open up the floor for discussing promotions and demotions. I like the idea of having one of the leagues clear out nearly completely, but I want to hear other folks ideas. I also like the idea of a double promotion to the winners of their entire league in Open and B. B's overall winner would go straight to Premiere and Open's straight to A. Does anyone else have any thoughts on that (positive or negative).

Do we want to have point rewards again this year? Or are promotions and knowing you are one of the best (or luckiest :-) ) enough for everyone? I liked the little boost to my points for winning B1 and, as it turned out, the rearranging of the leagues essentially resulted in a double promotion for being top scorer in both B leagues last season.

Also, we should discuss turn lengths: 24/25, 36, 48/50?

How far apart to we want to space the games? Do we want to start two simultaneously and then the next round start 4 weeks later? Start a new game every 2 weeks?

What about points for winning/drawing? In the past it has always been 12 . You get them all or divide them up. But that seemed to lead to a lot mre collusion and draws and discouraged early wins. I think if we add extra poitns for an outright win (maybe 15 total) that people would be more willing to try for the early win. What's a good balance? 12/15? 12/18? Leave it at 12?

So lets get the discussion rolling here.

My vote is for 48/50.
A polling feature would be nice for the forum.

wait... was I supposed to get extra daggers for winning the Premiere League last year? how many?

I don't know how many for Premiere. It wasn't a lot compared to what you have, so you probably didn't even notice the change as it was a mod given addition and didn't show up on the home page with a "yuou have been given N points" or anything. But it was a couple of hundred which helped me considering I always lose them in the big games.

Still doesn't make sense....in the C leagues just a quick example:

Idealist ranked 38th on this had 19pts and 54SC
Sargmacher is 44th with 23pts and 64sc
I am ranked 45th with 19pts

These were all C league games. Why would there be a 7 pt gap between Idealist and myself? Shouldn't Sarg be ahead of both?

Idealist was also in C1 so retained his position from not being demoted in that league. His win in the D-leagues was irrelavent.

And no, they were D-league games.

Had idealist's C-league perfomrance resulted in a D-motion :-) then he would be ranked between you and Sarg for winning the D-league in which you came second.

I was unaware that he was in the C league as well...negates most of my point.

How would he have won the D league, we had the exact same points and SC? At best it was a tie, and resorted to a tie-breaker which I could see why he won.

I hadn't looked that close to see you two were perfectly tied. I'm guessing we would have had to look to GR to decide that one if it came down to it, but his C-League standing made it a moot point.

Count me in regardless. I'm up for it; I don't have any games outside of tourney games and can commit the time needed to put forth a good effort and communicate. I'd be open for 48 hour phases though; definitely nothing under 36.

In the Old Leagues, I felt I was always playing for 4th place. There were always people of higher caliber and I knew I wouldn't make it into the top 3. This is a bad mentality to have in the Premier League.

Only keeping the top 3 positions is rough, but I think it will encourage people to play for the win. Now, we could consider allowing 4 spots to stay in the Premier, only because 4 out of 14 is still much more cutthroat than 4 out of 7. So, my vote would be let 4 people stay. I think it will still encourage much better play.

I would *love* 36 hours. Especially when we start playing 3 League games at once (which always seems to happen, no matter the spacing). 3 25-hour games is a serious killer for me, and many other people. I would much prefer 36 hour.

Babak and I have had detailed discussions about scoring. I'll try to find them, or you could ask him.

I want to, of course, also get orathaic's input on all this, but thinking about the top positions, I'm almost leaning to top 6 stay in Premiere which would be the same as top three if there had been two 7 player Premiere leagues. But 4 could also work...

So, discuss this possibility:

P - 6 stay, rest demoted
A: 5 promotions (extra 1 comes from best of the best in B) and 6 demotions, 3 stay
B: 1 double promotion, 5 promotions (6 thcomes from open winner), demotions depend on number of open leagues (winners plus best second all get promoted from Open). If we have 6 7 players leagues then 6 B demotions.
O: Grand winner gets double promotion, other winners and best second get promoted.

I'm interested in playing if there's still room available...

I think 6 in the Premier is too many. With only 14 people, it will be too easy to make cross-game alliances. I'm tired of having "deals with the devil" in the Premier League.

I think between 3-5 is fine.

Lol... That's actually a great way to put it abge.. Deals with the devil. There are definitely times it feels like that's what's happening. I think 4-5 staying is good; but three is still too punitive.

hey... are you calling me the devil =P

I'm actually considering proposing and TD'ing a new 'league' tourney that is all Anon and based solely on GR and performance. but still thinking about it.

as for this, seems there is a difference of opinion on when it is set to start... i'm going to wait yet to see if I want to join. i'd love to hear from some other top players to see if they are sticking around or not.

sorry to be elitist about it... but if I play in a non-anon tourney again, i'd prefer to make sure i'm not risking so much of my GR simply to be used for target practice by everyone else. and i've had that happen to me in too many games to imagine its not true.

also - 36 hours would be a minimum for me as well, 48 hours MUCH preferred.

@Babak

Why don't you send me an email about the Grand Festive Diplomacy Tournament. We may be able to work something out.

Starting date is up in the air only because I'm concerned about the Holidays so soon agfter starting and interrupting the games just when they are getting into full swing, especially if we shift to 36 hour games.

@Babak; I thought about using that setup to joke with you. I actually laughed aloud when I saw you mention it.

@ Babak, I believe part of the benefit of the leagues Is that it becomes another forum to prove yourself as a diplomacy player. It is important to note that GR does not accurately rank all of the players on this site as there are a variety of game-types and people possess a variety of motivators.The leagues, as they were, represent another goal to work for. You can't make the top GR if you play 4 games a year and you can't make the top GR if you mostly play live low stakes games. These people could still be among the best players around and deserve the chance to show that. These are extreme examples but my point is that GR gains are not what motivate players in tournaments, but rather, winning tournaments is.

This brings me to the proposed set-up of this new league. I believe the new set-up does not accurately recognize the best players on the site. In the sense, that it does not provide enough of a reward for strong-showings and it overly penalizes one bad showing. A lot of this has been covered, but being one of the 14 "premiere" players is not even half as good as being in the premiere 7.

I have been thinking about it, and I probably won't join the new leagues. Simply because they take enough time and there is no pay off. I'd rather use the time for those games to play GR games or high-stakes. Now, if the tournament had a pay-off, like the opportunity to be in a premiere or A league, where I would be playing against the best performers in the history of the tournament, and not simply the best performers from the year previous, I would join again.

On the issue of anonymity, I am still undecided. There is definitely good arguments for both and I think it largely depends on what you want to get of the tournament which you'll prefer.

Draugnar: The way you have it set up, 8 get demoted from premier league while only 6 get promoted (5 from A, one from B). That doesn't quite add up. You could get the other 2 from maybe a second from B and another from A. That would make A very transient though.
Other than that, everything adds up.

Is there a roster of who's in where playing whom yet?

Yeah, on the first or second page of this thread. I think it's the first page.

18 rdrivera2005
19 L1star
20 obiwanobiwan

I'm sandwiched between these two? Heaven help me!

Well I'm right behind drano and goldfinger, with the Czech 2 spots behind me. I have a feeling I'll be finding my way to the open leagues shortly.

oops. you're right gman.

@Draug and Ora: I'd be interested in joining the leagues this year and I got the confirm email but I can't afford to join if turn phases are less than 2 days. can you confirm the lenght before I commit?

When are you starting to list the open leagues?