there is loads just google it and click the first site

BBQ? Chicago hot dogs? Brownies? American food is hardly just McDonald's. I haven't eaten at a McDonald's in five years.

Football (our football, the real one) is fantastic.

Sic remember how ofended you got over the SF peaks using reclaimed water because it was sacred to Native American tribes? You respected THEIR religion so much that you were offering to slash the tires of people going there to ski and snowboard (I just went Saturday, by the way, then they got 15 inches on Sunday - bummer). I pointed out in that thread that you really only seem to disrespect mainstream religions - which is consistent, you are very anti-mainsteam everything, but the lack of empathy is confusing. It wouldn't be if you just thought all religions - including the Native Americans ones - were nonsense. But when you get offended by something that is a matter of religion, I guess I would just expect you to show a little more understanding about how sensitive people can be about their own.

i never mentioned McDonalds, inv i spent a couple of months in america and your raw ingredients are very poor quality, and your food is so sweet, your bread is virtually uneatable. You cant count a sport where tv controls breaks in play, its so slow moving how long playing time is there?about an hr?yet it takes 3 hrs to finish a game, and its so repetitive

oh no, is this thread really going to get highjacked for a debate on the validity of football versus football?

no sorry both are boring anyway in my opinion

If you buy crap like Wonderbread then yeah, it's uneatable. You must have been shopping in pretty low quality areas, because there's always a place to find with fresh foods.

I'd also like to add Reuben sandwiches to good American foods.

Sicarius must just have some axe to grind with Christianity. He's a homeless high school dropout who tramps around the Southwest complaining about, well, everything. Interesting to see what someone in that perspective thinks, but irrelevant to reality.

If the majority religion was some kind of American Indian animism he'd be defending Christianity. He just wants attention.

You want boring try watching a baseball game between teams you don't care about. Thank God for highlight reels.

no just in the supermarket and i was buying the expensive stuff, this isnt an attack just statement of fact, your steaks are good though, but your bacon is not bacon. Anyway back on topic, im nothing like sic but i have an axe to grind with christianity well actually all organised religion

Organising is the problem when it comes to religion, right?

@bartdogg: "haha, philcore I like it! So long as you don't throw out ALL prophecy. Jesus could not have had a hand in being born in Bethlehem, in David's line, or of a virgin."

right - those are still valid prophecies - whether or not they were fulfilled, is still a matter of faith, of course, but at least they weren't purposely fulfilled.

Well trim, Jesus had an axe to grind against the organized religion of his day also. Of course, it wasn't because they were organized, or because they were a religion, it was because they had turned from the heart to flesh and from the spirit to law.

We have precisely the same thing going on in Christianity today. There are many churches that have gone from obeying the spirit of "love your neighbor as yourself" to legalism. Unfortunately, that kind of attitude is prevalent in our churches and I think it is precisely this kind of religiosity that people despise (for good reason!).

True religion of the heart is a refreshing thing and I hope you come into contact with it at some point so you can see the difference.

As for the prophecy thing - you coul argue that since God made the prophecies through men, and then came down to earth as a man, that he purposely fulfilled ALL of the prophecies... :P

I think one of the coolest prophecies is the one about when the Messiah would come. It was a certain nuber of years from the decree that Jerusalem could be rebuilt. And guess what - at exactly the right time Jesus came riding into Jerusalem on a donkey. He was sad though because they 'did not recognize the day of their visitation'.

One other thing about the donkey - can we still count it? Because Jesus told the disciples to go into town and he told them where the donkey was and what to say if someone asked why they were taking it and they found everything exactly the way he said.

So - still another fulfilled prophecy that he couldn't 'control'.

your comparing me to jesus-i kinda like it :p

our bacon is not bacon? Why has nobody told me this before?

What the hell is it? And what the hell is bacon? I'd love to try it sometime.

Do you think it's because American butchers don't know what part of the pig to cut off and call it bacon? Are they cutting off the real bacon and just calling it something else? Porkchop maybe? Ham? Or is that American pigs don't have that part to even cut off? Perhaps that's what we use to make our footballs ?

I'm really confused now, and a little frightened - I have a feeling I'm going to spend the next 20 minutes on wikipedea!

well, you didn't go quite as far as he did...he called them a "brood of vipers"!!

ok philcore trust me if your ever in england try the bacon i dont know if its the type of cut or the cure but american bacon i far to sweet to be savory if that makes sense

@Jacob - "One other thing about the donkey - can we still count it? Because Jesus told the disciples to go into town and he told them where the donkey was and what to say if someone asked why they were taking it and they found everything exactly the way he said."

Well that's Matt and Marks version - John said he found it. But even so - that doesn't give him the prophecy back, it only gives him clairvoyance credit (assuming he didn't do something more devious like plant the donkey - but I'm making no such accusations here). The son of god, can raise the dead, he certainly knew where to find a donkey without looking for it.

But he did it IN ORDER to fulfill the prophecy. This is tantamount to scratching the "void if removed" portion of a lottery ticket. You can't fullfill a prophecy just to fullfill it.

Personally I think the whole prophecy thing is a bit over-rated. I get that it seemed important at the time - but it wasn't even convincing to the majority at the time. I think it was a mistake to try to be linked so closely with the OT to even try to say that such and such prophecy was fulfilled. you turn water into wine and feed a few thousand with a basket of bread and a few fish, and you bring people back to life including yourself ... That's impressive enough. Frankly I don't really CARE what Isaiah or Zechariah said about what you would or wouldn't do a thousand years earlier!

clairvoyance?

well, all I can say is that God purposely fulfilled all of the prophecies. However, he did it to show that HE was the one doing it.

However, you certainly dont have to be convinced by it. Really the only way anyone is ever going to be convinced is through the Bible itself. No amount of miracles, prophecies, experience, science, signs and wonders, or anything else will convince anybody who doesn't want to be convinced.

Jesus said in a parable that even if a dead person came back to life that people wouldn't believe. And then, well, Jesus died and came back to life - and people still don't believe.

@trim - if it's the same cut, then it was most likely the cure. But to say that all American bacon is represented by the stuff you had, is to misunderstand the enormous variety of ways in which bacon can be prepared. If you were to get a bacon cheeseburger from McDonalds and take off the bacon and eat it - it would tast like 2 little crispy pieces of cardboard. on the other hand if you went to some butcher shop in a small town in the south, you might find the best bacon you had ever tasted in your life. Then there's all of the name brand stuff that you can buy at the supermarket. Some of it is applewood smoked, some maple, some hickory. Some of it is sweeter, some of it saltier, some of it is cut thick, some thin. But there's something for everyone, and I'd be willing to bet you would eventually find one that you think is just as good as the bacon back home.

Saying that all American bacon sucks is like saying all American beer sucks after just trying Budweiser... oh wait, you've said that too ... well, nevermind then.

by the way, when I finally do make it to England - and it's on my list of top 5 places to go someday- I will remember what you said about not only the bacon, but the Ciders as well.

and just to bring the bacon discussion back in line with the religion discussion:

Vincent: Want some bacon?
Jules: No man, I don't eat pork.
Vincent: Are you Jewish?
Jules: Nah, I ain't Jewish, I just don't dig on swine, that's all.
Vincent: Why not?
Jules: Pigs are filthy animals. I don't eat filthy animals.
Vincent: Bacon tastes gooood. Pork chops taste gooood.
Jules: Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherfucker. Pigs sleep and root in shit. That's a filthy animal. I ain't eat nothin' that ain't got enough sense enough to disregard its own feces.
Vincent: How about a dog? Dogs eats its own feces.
Jules: I don't eat dog either.
Vincent: Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal?
Jules: I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
Vincent: Ah, so by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal. Is that true?
Jules: Well we'd have to be talkin' about one charming motherfuckin' pig. I mean he'd have to be ten times more charmin' than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know what I'm sayin'?

I think this thread has been officially derailed =)

yeah - I think your right - but hey, congrats on learning Greek and trying out your own translation, I think that's pretty cool. Do you plan on learning Hebrew at some point and trying your hand at the OT? I know a couple people who have learned both languages for that reason.

well the day someone wants to spray a church with piss so they can have a slip and slide I'll be right next to you defending it.
I think all religions are ridiculous, including native american religions.
I have 'an axe to grind' with christianity because in this country christianity is used as an excuse to do alto of bad things, or as an excuse for inaction to stop bad things.
I also dont like what christianity is today, its become... unwholesome.
and I certainly dont beleive in it, its filled with logical holes and fallacies, which can only be plugged with 'faith'
honestly though I have no problem with the religion itself. if you all want to be better people, I dont give a shit why.
thats just not how it usually manifests itself. calling people douchebag is "just in line with christianity"? come on.
dont make me say the quote again

I already started learning Hebrew - I'm not very good at it though, I think I'll do better with Greek. I'll probably try to go back to Hebrew at some point though.

I'm not really a huge fan of religious discussions over the internet. It often degrades into hateful comments that upset everyone.

To contribute to discussion, I think there is a middle gorund for biblical interpretation. For instance, the seven days of creation actually being over millions of years (or god days). Given the expanse of time it could be argued that a lack of prophets and godlike action today might be just because we are on sunday and god is resting. Or anything really along those lines.

As far as other ancient texts being accepted though I would argue that everything is taken with a grain of salt. I'm in a Roman History class right now and alot of the accoutns are followed by footnotes over how long after the literature was written and any possible biases.

I've also had a go at translation, but I'm a little rusty. The preface reads....

'This is a work of fiction, any resemblence to persons living or dead is entirely coincidental'

As I say I'm a little rusty.

why would an all powerful being need to rest