Everth Cabrera played some 2B didn't he? Not this year, but before.

Biggio just missed didn't he? Raines admissions about drugs might do him in.
So Torre will get in as soon as he is eligible. Will the voters let Piazza and Bags in from the Roids era?

Both got close to 60% of the vote on their 3rd and 1st ballots, so I think they'll get in. Torre will get in as a manager but not a player.

@Emac? Did he? I know he was *mostly* a shortstop.

I agree Torre will get in as a manager, but he body of work as a player wasn't bad, just not HOF.

Hecks, who was mostly a shortstop? Raines?

No, Cabrera.

(Everth, not Miggy)

Yes, Evereth was mostly at short. He was the only who played any 2B I could think of.

@hecks ... David Ortiz is a better hitter than Prince Fielder, and Prince Fielder is a very, very solid defensive first baseman. People think he's not, well, because he's big. They don't think he could play like he does, but he's probably on the same level as Pujols is on defense (also underrated). Freeman and Votto are probably the only two first baseman that are on another level defensively, but Fielder is certainly better than a DH. Personally, I'd put Infante at DH on the Tigers before Fielder, especially with Iglesias (once Peralta comes back).

And Florimon is underrated and he's improving. You'll see the defense in a few years. The bat is easy to fix, too, especially for a contact hitter.

@Emac... Torre will be in the HoF. Shoo-in. Piazza, Biggio, and Bagwell will also get in easily. Bagwell and Piazza didn't do steroids at least by my knowledge, though I agree that Raines will be kept out with the drug admissions. I hope so.

Everth Cabrera was a combo infielder. He played both middle spots. Played mostly shortstop because the Padres needed him there.

@2WL ... Pedroia is not a distant second to Cano at 2B. He's a very close second, or you could argue that Cano is a very close second. They are both very much in the conversation of current players that will be remembered as some of the best ever.

@BoSox,

"And Florimon is underrated and he's improving. You'll see the defense in a few years. The bat is easy to fix, too, especially for a contact hitter."

He's 27. It's getting close to put up or shut up time. When they fix his bat, I'll reconsider. Til then, he's still a career .218 hitter. I'd be tossing him down to High-A to get his swing figured out.

Maybe if you are the Rangers. The Twins can't afford to do that.

Anyway, I'm not sure why they resort to sending a guy to Triple-A to figure out his swing or stuff like that. You're facing major league pitching, fix him in the cage like any good coach can do, get his mind back on it (hitting is all mental), and change some things up day by day until something works and he has a 3-4 game with a double or something. Then leave it and see how it goes.

And it's not really like Florimon's improving steadily. He's hitting .154 since the all-star break. That's sub-Mendoza.
Even more alarming is that his minor league numbers aren't much better. He's a career .251 hitter at AAA, and .250 at AA. And those sample sizes are 345 and 805 PAs. Not exactly small sample sizes. Sure the kid's got a good glove, but you can't let him be that much of a drag on your offense, no matter how good the glove. If you ask me, he doesn't project to much more than a defensive replacement, MAYBE a backup utility infielder.

I don't think it's a matter of "getting his mind back on it". As far as I can tell, he could never hit, even in the minors.

.250 is a fine number for a shortstop if he can defend. That's what the 8-hole is for. Seven positions in the AL are hitters and two are defenders: SS and C. If you play either of those spots, you are in the game to play defense.

I count 12 MLB starting shortstops with averages better than .250, 13 with more homers than Florimon this year (not counting the 3 with whom he's tied), and he doesn't make the top 20 in OPS. (Insult to injury, he's also 11th in fielding percentage).

And to defend the original contention that Tulo is the best shortstop in baseball, guess who's #2 in Fielding Percentage? Tulo.

You know who would be a surprisingly defensible pick this year for best shortstop in baseball? JJ Hardy. He trails Jose Bautista by 6 homers (leads all shortstops with 21), 7 RBI (leads all shortstops with 65) and .013 in BA.

To take the conversation full circle - Peralta was having an awesome year too at short.

JJ Hardy is fourth or fifth on my own list.

Andrelton Simmons is eighth in fielding percentage. However, he's #1 in UZR (11.3), dWAR (3.1), and DRS (24). And if you cut the three numbers in half, you still have arguably the best defensive shortstop in the league at *half* his numbers. Case in point - fielding percentage can be as much determined by the scorekeeper as it is by the players' capabilities and there are way too many factors to single it out.

Florimon is a work in progress. 27 is not too young to be a prospect by any means. He is learning how to finish plays and that's what's key for him. Florimon is 5th in UZR (5.9), second in dWAR (1.4), and second in DRS (9). Notice how far above him yet Simmons is. Florimon, though, has a RF of 5.9, easily best in the game among shortstops, and that's why I rank him high in the future, whether he's elite now or not.

Tulowitzki is second in UZR (6.5), ninth in dWAR (0.8), and fifth in DRS (5). The most glaring issue for Tulo is injuries, and while it seems like an odd factor to throw in here, you expect the best in the league to play every day. Tulo can't; he's just not got the right genetic makeup.

Did you just cite fielding percentage?

Everything bo said is true, except that Andrelton Simmons is only the second best defensive shortstop in baseball. Brendan Ryan is a godawful hitter though, so it's a moot point.

Sorry ghug, Brendan Ryan is in the top three defensively (didn't even think of him in my original list), but Andrelton Simmons is unparalleled right now.

I don't think you're right. A sample size of half a season is not enough to make the metrics accurate, and Ryan isn't doesn't start regularly.

I think this is what you're looking for, Emac.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ69MbhNVzQ

Semck, those are some clean balls! Thanks for the link!!!

If half a season were enough to project metrics, there would be no question that Segura is the best shortstop in baseball.

It depends on what stats you're talking about. K%, for instance, is pretty projectable with only half a season's stats. Fielder ratings, on the other hand, aren't really projectable with even a full season's. Thats the issue with using fielding stats to say who's the best defender. You do need to rely on the eye at least somewhat for it.

I wonder where Machado would rank if he actually go to play short. With him, Profar, Boegaerts and the other highly regarded shortstops in the minors, we could be in for another golden age at the position.

Bogaerts is going to play third. Profar is probably going to play second. But you know.

Check out Puig gunning down Marlon Byrd trying to go first to third on a dunker down the rightfield line. It'll be on the top 10 tonight