And if you were a judge who did that I would have you brought before a disciplinary committee for judiciary misconduct.

And Draug. I do hope you decide to leave over this. Permanently. Because of your antics I will never willingly join a game with you. So your existence on the site is a co distant minor inconvenience to me when joining anon games.

And yes. I broke my personal rules on civility for these last two posts. Sometimes things need to be said

Haha. If you did so I clearly didn't throw out hard enough

No big loss to me, damian. I honestly don't give a fuck if you live or die (actually you dying might be cool to hear about), much less that you refuse to play with me. Boo hoo hoo. Fucktard.

I know you don't give a shit. I certainly don't expect you to.

But I do hope you decide that this is work leaving over (for more than 6 hours this time). That would make me smile.

"Everyone one else could do the same. Then the content of those messages are in the public domain even though draug didn't give me permission to do so."

That's not what public domain means, but otherwise, sure.

-
"So to skip this intermediate step, I can just tell kestas, that he has my permission to do whatever he wants with my private press, including the other payers' remarks."

This is an interesting legal argument. Interesting arguments are the opposite of reliable in law. Granting him permission to use the content is not the same as sending the content to him as an addressed recipient, or posting it publicly.

-
"This isn't "private communication" in the sense that an email, instant message, or phone call is."

It probably is. If the law hasn't already carved out a specific stance toward in-game messaging, a judge is likely to use the established law for something similar: email or IMs.

As a matter of curiosity, I'd love to see how this would play out in court, since I wouldn't be paying for it. It could get even more interesting if someone pointed out that this is descended from games carried out over postal services, which have their own established law.

I am not posting the following as a mod. I am doing it as a player and it is just my opinion.

This is Kestas's private site. He can do whatever the hell he wants. He did not have to inform any of us that he was going to give out old data/games (not current ones). If he had decided to just do it, no one would be the wiser except for the mods and himself, but being the reasonable and nice person that he is, he thought to ask to see what people's ideas were.

I don't know internet laws. I don't know copyright laws. I don't have a 170 IQ. But I do know this: Draugnar, you are a self-righteous humorless ass who thinks he is morally superior to everyone and is above the law.

When other members on the forum make a mistake or do something YOU think they shouldn't, you tell them that they are violating ABC site rules, for them to go to the mods, or that the mods will do XYZ to them if they don't stop doing whatever they are doing.
When the mods do something YOU think they shouldn't and even though you don't know the details, you tell them that they are violating site rules or abusing their powers and that if they don't stop, you'll tell Kestas.
When it fits your argument, you'll say that it's Kestas's site and he can do whatever the hell he wants.
When Kestas *asks* for feedback for giving his old data for research purpose and he has said there are a number of conditions that were put in place to protect the site users, you threaten to sue him because you think some laws out there give you the right to do so.
However, when you don't like some laws, here's your response: "This should only cause mods effort if the person claiming their orders were different asks the mods to check it out. If someone else does the mods can simply reply with a pat ['we can neither confrim nor deny'] type answer. I have used this tactic and I will continue to use this tactic just as I ignore certain.laws on the books here in Ohio that aren't enforced and should be struck from the books."

Regardless of the situation, you always know better because there are site rules that have appointed you to defend them, or the creator's will that somehow has been given to you to determine when mods have abused their powers, or laws that say what Kestas can or cannot do with his own site, or that your own sense of morality and compass are better than some "laws on the books." You only call on the next level of authority when it fits your needs, but you have no RESPECT for it because you think you are better than it. You could have just emailed the mods or even Kestas and asked to be opt out (http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?threadID=1002097&page-thread=1#threadPager; "This isn't a democracy or a public/government court of law. This is a private site owned by Kestas and managed by the mods and admins. They don't have to report to us, only Kestas in the end.")

You have also threatened to DDoS the site more than once. You threatened to ruin the whole site, for thousands of users, because you didn't like some mod ruling or whatever. And you did not go through the "appeal" process that you slammed repeatedly in SplitDiplomat's face.
Let's be frank: you have no RESPECT for this site, its rules nor the mods nor the other users, and you certainly have not shown any respect to Kestas today.

Stay. Leave. I don't particularly care what you do, and it wouldn't be particularly hard for Kestas to not send the records of the games with you as a player in it. The mod team will certainly not treat you any different than before or different from other members. They will always, to the best of their abilities, try to be fair and lenient moderators to keep the site functioning so that people CAN HAVE FUN. It's a fucking game for God's sake.

BUT let's dispel the myth that you are the moral authority or any sort of authority on this site.

If you like the site and the games, then stay and play.
If you don't want your personal games to be used for whatever purpose, then ask that they aren't.
If you don't like the site anymore, then you can leave. No one is forcing you to come here.


But please don't threaten to sue Kestas or the site or DDoS it.

God that was fun! I sure got you stupid fucks riles up good! I honestly don't care if Kestas releases it, but I do think it should be with an opt out for those who don't want their press released as it does fit within the expectation of privacy pursuant to the IT Law excerpt I posted. But fear not, Kestas *has* my permission. I just wanted to rile you fucks up and it sure was fun! But I'm off to bed now. I guess I should go to the other thread I was trolling and let philcore and a few other fucks off the hook. Nah, maybe tomorrow. :-)

Night all!

The argument has moved on, and I certainly don't want to get involved, but since copyright law came up earlier, I will go ahead and mention that, es, you do have copyright over everything you write. As others have pointed out, though, enforcing such a thing in a case like *this* would be very unlikely; but it's not the case (absent a TOS to the contrary) that kestas owns all the writing on this site.

This is not to get into the privacy issues, etc. And personally, I don't care if my press is shared. I purely wanted to clarify an abstract point of contention earlier.

Sorry about my lack of pithy comments, I had to eat dinner.

Fucking typical draug. When you lose an argument, you claim you were just kidding. You are so completely transparent and predictable that you are the easiest one to guess in an anon game.

Zultar, If I was ever going to multi here, it would be tonight, just to plus 1 that post a few more times.

This researcher is most welcome to read my in game messages.

(Final note: the part about enforcement being unlikely is my personal opinion, but I don't practice in the area of copyright, so it should not be taken as a legal opinion; and if kestas wants to know that for sure, he should consult somebody who does work in that area.)

I'm sorry if I enabled trolling. I thought everybody was arguing in good faith.

/noob

Fine by me. But I agree that I want to see the results.

Actually, I very much won. The fact is that the courts view any conversation between two individuals that is not readily visible to the public to be protected by privacy laws. If the conversations in game were made publicly available as soon as the game ended then they would have limited privacy protection. But since a guest to Tue site can't just come on amd see them, they continue to maintain their reasonable expectation of privacy.

@Draug
Check this out. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/02/opinion/intercepting-e-mail.html
It is New York Times article talking about how a court of appeals basically rendered every argument you have made moot.

That's in the first circuit only, Earendil.

(Or at least, that's all the article implies. I don't really know the state of the law on this in other circuits).

That it is true, but it still sets a interesting legal precedent that flies in the face of his arguments.

Eärendil: That's United States v. Councilman. The decision you cite was reversed after the op-ed you linked. Ultimately Councilman was acquitted due to lack of evidence that he personally had ordered the snooping.

As gavrilop points out, that nine year old decision was overturned. More recent precedent places all electronic communication between two people as private except for the parts of the message needed to relay it from point to point.

You are my fucking hero, zultar. I am sorry that I only have one +1 to give.

I love that I got zultar to flip out. So zultar, when was the last time I threatened to DDoS the site? And what happened not long after I did (to the site that is, hint hint). :-)

@Zultar - I'm concerned that your personal attack on my candidate will seriously affect his campaign, you have come out with an anti-draug stance and I feel you are ignoring the great advances that scientists have made with draug in the last few years. I agree for some CBT is the way forward but if you check his +1 record I think you'll find a lot of Users on this forum prefer the draug, I feel some have even become addicted to him and need to get their fix on a daily basis.
I think you're trying to say that the draug don't work, he just makes it worse ..... but you know you'll see his face again.
DRAUG4MOD2013

So +1 my posts already, Nigee!

@Draug - I haven't had time to read them all yet, that diatribe from Zultar has warn me out, I need coffee
I think I can put on a fight on at the MGM Grand in Vegas - Draugnar vs Zultar. I just need a strapline to market the show.

I'm sure that warn s/be spelt worn :-) (no emoticons, Grrrrrrr !!)

Florida State University? Does he play here? I'm a grad and a local that has only put together a face to face game twice...oh and I say share the data. I'm interested to see what turns out of it.