"Obligatory North Korea reference, now this trashy redbaiting thread is complete."

We wouldn't mention it if you didn't hail a government that sends Olympic losers to work in mines or outright executes them while starving millions of its people, murdering thousands of others, abducting others, threatening or else outright attacking its neighbors to the South, daily chant "Death to America," and try their damnedest to develop a nuclear warhead that could hit the US.

And as I LIVE ON the West Coast of the US, Putin, I take that as a wee bit of a problem!

"They liberated the camps! Wow. Just wow. If Churchill did 1/10 the stuff that Stalin did during the war, you'd be having parades for him every fucking day."

Who drove them out of Russia in WWI and into Germany and those same camps 20 years later?!

And Churchill and FDR had the same idea about the Holocaust--

Win the war the fastest to end the Holocaust the fastest?
Do I agree with that?
Yes and no; some help might have been spared, but I can see their looking at a larger war picture.
Did they liberate camps?
The Americans did, at least.

And the Americans weren't the ones who were murdering them and driving them out back in Russia in the first place, now, WERE THEY, Putin?

"The USSR was *founded & led by Jews! It also created an autonomous province for Yiddish culture. Stalin's Russia was also the first country and the most adamant country about recognizing Israel. Meanwhile McCarthite America wanted to root out "Judeo-Bolshevism" from American shores."

I'm sorry--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Israel#Member_states_of_the_UN

"The Soviet Union voted in favor of the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine in 1947, which paved the way for the creation of the State of Israel. On 17 May 1948, on the third day of Israel's independence, the Soviet Union granted de jure recognition to the State of Israel, becoming only the second country to recognise Israel (preceded only by the United States' de facto recognition) and the first country to grant Israel de jure recognition."

The US gave the first, de factor recognition--what Israel NEEDED.

And again, Jews weren't exactly welcome 1900-1950 in Russia!

""The greatest difference between Stalin and Hitler was Hitler, clearly, preferred the Chaplin 'Stache while Stalin preferred the Walrus Look."

And you call me an apologist for Hitler. Fucking unreal."

And my saying they were both such wickedly evil men that were there such a place as Hell they'd be the first to burn is apologizing for Hitler...HOW?

My saying they're so equally evil the the only difference between them is their mustache is apologizing...HOW?

Go on, try it.

How do you get from mustache styles to apologizing for Hitler while you take Hitler over Churchill despite the former committing the Holocaust, burning books, burning people, starting a war...

I think Churchill in light of his love of empire and racism was a horrible man, and I do not recognise the argument that he was a great leader, WW2 would have been won without him in all probability, the 'genius' of Hitler was stupid in declaring war on the USA and the USSR. Stalin was beyond crazy, however I feel the root of many of his disgusting actions were his crazed paranoia. As for the jews in the USSR, many jews were prominent (not practising of course), such as Trotsky, but Stalin wasn't too keen on them... As a side point Putin I'm suprised you mention Stalin so much instead of Trotsky/Lenin or someone who whilst obviously still a very controversial figure is closer to the communist ideal.

"In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty."

Even assuming that held--and I don't for a second--that's despicable.

I'm anti-death penalty PERIOD...

But a death penalty for holding a viewpoint? Even a wicked and despicable viewpoint?

What happened to liberty, Putin? What happened to Freedom of Speech?

As a JEW--that's despicable policy. No one should be killed simply for a belief, even for the most repulsive belief.

Right, so now we go from the USSR being called 'anti-semitic' to being too extreme in their opposition to anti-semitism. Just shows you that there is no satisfying Obi. Unless you're Napoleon or Nietzsche of course, then you can be as anti-semitic as you want and get glowing praise.

"As a side point Putin I'm suprised you mention Stalin so much instead of Trotsky/Lenin or someone who whilst obviously still a very controversial figure is closer to the communist ideal."

Trotsky was not close to any communist ideal. He was an opportunist who changed his stripes to whatever was convenient at any moment. He was an egomaniac who spent his time demonizing the USSR and writing polemics from 'exile'. He was in exile because he openly advocated terrorism against the Soviet Union. He and Lenin had nothing in common. They disagreed about virtually every important aspect of policy. I did not mention Lenin as the greatest leader because he wasn't in power long enough. He was sickly after the assassination attempt. Lenin is my greatest hero, so I do not mean to question his importance. But as a practical matter, he did not rule long enough to be called the greatest ruler.

Yep, we're still just gonna ignore the Doctor's Plot.

Well glad you agree Lenin was better than Stalin. And interesting points on Trotsky, however it was Stalin who was really the opportunist stripe changer (also Stalin was denounced by Lenin near Lenin's death), he worked with Zinoviev and Kamenev against Trotsky, before turning on them with Bukharin (Rykov as well I believe). before turning on them to become leader. He supported the NEP based on convenience and he supported Socialism in One Country, against Trotsky's international view, an international view more in keeping with the ideals of communism. I agree that Stalin was instrumental in winning the second world war and the development of the USSR, however he was an opportunistic power hungry man who was deeply afflicted by paranoia.

WOW...

Trotsky isn't a true commie for Putin, but Stalin was picture perfect as a comrade...

Putin, are you the genetically-re-engineered corpse of Josef Stalin brought back to life?

It's OK, you can tell us...

"Right, so now we go from the USSR being called 'anti-semitic' to being too extreme in their opposition to anti-semitism. Just shows you that there is no satisfying Obi."

I'm sorry, but a state that first drives Jews out and then makes freedom of speech a crime punishable by death in instances isn't a state that deserves my respect.

Or anyone's.

@Invictus:

Wow.

I didn't even know about that little doozy...

Hey.
Putin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors'_plot

"The Doctors' plot (Russian language: дело врачей [doctors' affair], врачи-вредители [doctors-saboteurs] or врачи-убийцы [doctors-killers]) in 1952/53 was the most dramatic anti-Jewish episode in the Soviet Union during Joseph Stalin's regime, involving the "unmasking" of a group of prominent Moscow doctors, predominantly Jews, as conspiratorial assassins of Soviet leaders.[1] This was accompanied by show trials and anti-Semitic propaganda in state-run mass media. Scores of Soviet Jews were promptly dismissed from their jobs, arrested, sent to the Gulag, or executed."



You were saying how loving and kindly the USSR was to Jews...?

-1 point for Obi and Invictus for having such a long discussion with Stalinist. You should have known better.

+1 for the history lesson, Invictus.

"In his Secret Speech at the Communist Party's Twentieth Congress, Nikita Khrushchev asserted that Stalin intended to use the doctors' trial to launch a massive party purge."

Yeah...

"According to one source, Nikolay Nikolevitch Poliakov, Stalin purportedly created a special "Deportation Commission" to plan the deportation of Jews to these camps."

BOY was the USSR just ever so kind to we Jews!

@Zmaj:

You know that feeling you get when you know you really, really shouldn't...and yet you do?

Imagine that 40+ times now on this thread...with a guy standing next to you singing the Red Choir anthem...terribly off-key at that.

I'm not going to respond to much here, but umm, speaking as a member of a family of European Jews, born in America, but I know the trade…

There weren't many Jewish people in Europe in the Soviet era that really cared to be there. They were more or less stuck in Ukraine and Poland because there was no money available to go anywhere else...

Just sayin...

Hahaha... Oh man that's a funny image. OK, I understand.

Not that wikipedia is reliable, but they are right the doctor's plot would be a clear example of persecution of the jews (even if it did come from his paranoia like some suggest). Also whilst Khrushchev was right in mentioning Stalin's actions, I just want to throw it out there that old Nikita was also a disgusting man.

And yet we're going to ignore the fact that Stalin actually was poisoned.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/05/world/new-study-supports-idea-stalin-was-poisoned.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

A Red Herring if there ever was one.

Rumour has it that it was actually Molotov that poisoned him (Molotov would, at least supposedly, have been purged in the upcoming purges)

And yet we're going to ignore the fact that Stalin and Hitler are usually debated over who was wors --- oh wait, Putin adores both of them.

Ptuin--the man wanted to deport Jews to camps.

You know what I say to his being poisoned?

To life, to life, L'chaim!
L'chaim, l'chaim, to life!
It takes Putin-three-three to say
"Stalinist purge? HOORAY!"

Drink L'chaim, to LIFE (and in Joe's case, DEATH!)

" (also Stalin was denounced by Lenin near Lenin's death)"

Everybody was 'denounced' in that absurd letter that's called by Trotskyites the 'last will', which also says that increasing the Central Committee size with reduce factionnalism. Yet somehow Stalin was promoted General Secretary in one of Lenin's final acts as leader and not Trotsky, and furthermore Stalin was the only one who was on the Politburo from basically the time of the October Revolution until Lenin's death.

Lenin was PO'd that Stalin was 'rude' to Lenin's wife because the latter was feeding Lenin the news when the doctors had said he it was bad for his health. This doesn't discount the many instances in which Lenin glowingly praised Stalin. Stalin was the Leninist par excellence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvr8AjT0aD0

Because 50+ posts in we need some good music...

I'm glad the only thing you anti-communist twits ever produce is wikipedia and Khrushchev's selfserving 'secret' speech. Good sources, those.

Seriously, Obi is getting muted. He's turned into another Zmaj and he doesn't even pretend to be serious anymore.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Human_Rights/plot.html

Here you go!

Better source than Wikipedia for an anti-Jew purge plot?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org?

That a better source?

Putin, can you mute me too? And follow up with everyone else on this site so that you have no way of talking anymore. Of course I'm anti-communist.. Communism doesn't work...

And I won't wait for Obi to substantiate his repeated lies about the Soviets 'driving Jews out'. If anything they were criticized for doing the opposite, not allowing people who wanted to emigrate the ability to leave. More lies from Obi. I can't keep up with all the rubbish he produces these days.