it is personal preference - my two pennies worth is that gunboat is a pale shadow of the fully fledged game. It lacks the bit of diplomatic tanglements - it is risk without the die.....

Then, Hannibel, you aren't playing gunboat right. Seriously, I suck at it, but even I know that you can read a lot and communicate alot with the moves alone. It's just like Russia build F StP(nc). It tells England "The Russians are coming!" in full press despite Russia assuring England they have a solid alliance. Well, Russia may have supported England somewhere the previous turn (Nwy perhaps) but then turned around and did that build. It's a good indicator of Russia's real intent and that the support was a convenience of the moment to tell a tale hiding his true intent.

The only issue I really have is you only have one shot to tell your tale and can't continually chat and reassure the guy you are about to wipe off the map that you really are his friend.

There are players who are average at chess but masterful at speed chess, bughouse, and variant games. There are players who play the traditional game and revel in being at a high skill level in that game, they then seem to find it offensive when someone else claims to be good at the game by playing a completely different set of rules.

were comparing a sledgehammer to a fine Merlot and trying to compare them and say which is superior and which is inferior. the argument is invalid, there is not much comparison because full press requires tactics based solely on negotiations, gunboat is the absence of negotiation. end of story.

To quote my own profile (Octavious orifinally said it):
"Gunboat is a truly dire varient of the game that takes the soul of Diplomacy and pisses all over it. The moves are painfully formulaic, the style of play is so different from the true game that most of what you learn in one form is useless or, even worse, highly misleading when applied to the other, and at the end of the day almost every game is decided by someone who doesn't know a damned thing about gunboat doing something really stupid.
The Gunboat varient is only one step more enjoyable that the infamous Pacifist varient, in which speaking is allowed but moving units is forbidden and the winner is the last player to lose the will to live."

Most people play gunboat because it can be done quickly, but is only one half of the game. Yes, you can use the 'hidden diplomacy' of looking at the moves, but once EVERYONE knows that you can view the moves, then it becomes public press without the talking.
But if you look at the true setup of diplomacy: there is no dice, there is no cards, it is straight up math (higher numbers beat lower numbers). The reason? Because the game is in the discussion and diplomacy you make with the other players.

Gunboat isn't diplomacy. It is another game. Some people enjoy it, while I think it takes the heart of the game it was based on.
I honestly think it is for people that just don't want to do the 'important' part of communicating. They want a fast game they can just zip through and get their win or loss. It is for people without patience... people that want results now. Because of this, it is full of frumpy, emotional people that will NMR and CD once they see things not go their way. It is rife with corruption in that form (NMR and CD), and in anon live games, it is also rife with cheating, as no communication and straight attacking makes it harder to check for meta and multi (or so they think).

I'd not be upset if it wasn't on the site tomorrow.

Having said that, I do understand people enjoy it, so I'd never take it from them. I do, however, wished it was ranked and awarded points different than full press games, because it isn't the same game and shouldn't be ranked with those that take their time and play the game normally...

^ i play gunboats simply because that is really all i can find recently -_-.

but i agree with that post. Well worded

Of all 16 Diplomacy games I have played, I've only been defeated once, and it was a no press (gunboat) game. I'm not a fan either. But it is far less of a time commitment.

i agree with fortknox and his university essay response :-)
just because its quick...... would you prefer sex with an average girl very quickly or many hours with a beautiful girl....

I dunno I tend to last about as long regardless of what they look like. It all feels the same in the dark anyways

When I play full press, I realize that my real-life Charisma stat must be somewhere around 1.

But when I play gunboat, I realize that my INT isn't all that much higher ...

The relationship of Gunboat diplomacy to full press diplomacy is like the relationship of Bridge to Solitaire. The use the same medium, but at unrelated games.

To paraphrase Clausewitz "Gunboat is just diplomacy by other means." I really like Gunboat, though I couldn't tell you why.

That's odd, Jece, cause your record shows 6 defeats, not just 1 as you claim.

not only that but you've played 34 games, not 16...

and Hannibal has had sex not with one beautiful woman but with many little elephants..

So all this talk about gunboat makes me wonder about something. Is it the lack of Press that makes gunboat so unnerving for people, is it the high amounts of CD's, or is it the live fast paced nature of it? Maybe all of the above.

I noticed that press games, Live 5 minute games are a rarity except for with noobs, and I couldn't figure out why the live games tend to be mostly gunboats, because in theory there is nothing wrong with a quick game with press that would be speed diplomacy which is entirely different. And yet so few quality players seem to play full press live.

I agree with what Fortknock said. Gunboat is not Diplomacy, or a Diplomacy variant. It is a different game.

Fortknox wrote a great description of gunboat players. Not true for everyone, but compelling.

"Gunboat isn't diplomacy. It is another game."

True. I found WebDiplomacy after googling the phrase "pure strategy".

Perhaps people like Gunboat because lying (to their intended victim) makes them feel uncomfortable, whereas simply confusing or outwitting their intended victim (by supporting his moves, etc. before the stab) is simply cunning game play.

Draugnar and jmo1121109: You could read a little further and find that I joined about 17 games in progress, most of those as microstates.

Why bother? Other people join open games too, it doesn't mean those games don't count.

Brainbomb, I play live FP... In fact, I always join them if there is one, but unfortunately there aren't very many... Zestythelemon started a lot a whole ago, but he hasn't started any for a while.

@JECE - And how could we know that. You are the player of record on the games. It woild take hours of analysis to determine which were take overs and which you staryed and even then there would be false positives based on yoi buy in potentially being the same unless we looked into the press for notices about nations going CD and stuff. I sure as hell ain't spending that kind of time on it.

@Draug, he never asked you to. He's merely giving the stats that he wants to give, do whatever you want with him, but don't bitch him out.

So have we reached a consensus to create more live FP games? I too only join gunboats because they are available, and I'm quite bad at them :/

@ghug - He told us tobread further which, considering he had not clarified the stats at that time, would require researching his games. So he did tell us to do that.

He was referring to the rest of his profile message, in which he lists games that he joined while in progress.

After months of careful deliberation and analysis I've come to the conclusion that ghug is a geezer

jmo1121109: Ha ha, no, of course they count. That's why I've noted down how I did in each of those games. If I join as a 1-SC "Great Power" and manage to gain a couple points I'm happy with my performance. But what matters is points, then, because those statistics you see, and my GR, are completely messed up because I join those types of games.

Draugnar: Exactly, it's all listed, and at the top of my Profile Page. If you don't want to check out those games that's your problem. I'm only concerned with reporting the truth, not with troll like you believing me. ;-)