Zultar ask Mujus why he muted me? I never said anything bad to him.

I don't know why you (Mujus) thought that I was emotional. I was and am very much not emotionally attached to this at all. What I said I would say again on the clearest and calmest of days. It was all pretty much straightforward rational for me.

And YJ wanted to know why you muted him. I would mute him because he's an unrepentant heathen jackass, but that's just me. ;-)

dubmdell, where did Mujus say that Messianic Jew was a synonym for Christian? He said that some followers of Christ don't call themselves Christians, and some (for example) call themselves Messianic Jews.

@semck: "You don't have to call yourself a Christian, which to many people carries cultural and historical connotations. I have friends who call themselves Jesus People, or Messianic Jews"

He is here connecting two thoughts: 1) that there are other labels for oneself than "Christian," and 2) that one of these labels is messianic Jew. He is telling Sylence that he can interchange Christian and messianic Jew as synonymous labels (although the latter without the psychological, historical, and semantic freight). I will grant you that his second statement, standing alone, does not convey a synonymous implication, but he has connected the second statement with the first, making one cohesive thought that is, frankly, wrong.

No, dub, you're misinterpreting. He's using a specific example to illustrate a generic point. You COULD interpret it as you have -- but there is no need to. And there is a general rule in interpretation that when you can interpret something two ways, and one of them implies that the writer wrote nonsense, and the other doesn't, you should opt for the latter. There is every reason to assume Mujus knows what a Messianic Jew is (for example, he knows some), and no reason whatsoever to infer from what he says that he is misusing the term. You are simply refusing the common charity of interpreting in the most reasonable light, and doing so very rudely. Shame on you.

Semck, you are the personification of reason and of a gentle spirit.

I like Semck because he can argue with guys like me on our own terms. Most Christians aren't capable of this. He's also a good ally and fun to play Dip with.

"I would mute him because he's an unrepentant heathen jackass, but that's just me. ;-) "

LOL Zultar.

One thing I like about Zultar is that he has a definite sense of morality.

He just makes me laugh and that's good enough for me.

^ Implication: Mujus and all christians are morally superior to the rest of y'all.

Well, um, wow, thank you guys. I certainly never expect to log onto web dip and find people saying nice things about me. ; ) I definitely enjoyed our games, YJ, though you may be less than shocked to know that I liked the first one much better, lol.

I do fear I'm a little on the sarcastic side sometimes to count as much of a gentle spirit, though, Mujus. ;-(

" I have friends who call themselves Jesus People, or Messianic Jews"

There's nothing Jewish about 'Jesus people', considering he overthrew the OT and the entire NT purged Christianity of any association with Judaism. Any vestiges of Judaism were completely destroyed by Constantine.

Semck has a knack for turning plain English/plain wrong statements like what Mutejus said into a mad libs fest by engaging in enough logic chopping to make people question whether they can still read English.

lol, that's more like it. Thanks Putin for making me feel at home again.

"One thing I like about Zultar is that he has a definite sense of morality."
I think that's a good thing, but who knows. Whatever I type/say/do is bound to be misinterpreted at will here.

"He just makes me laugh and that's good enough for me."
That's definitely a good thing. And as long as someone is enjoying what I type, then it doesn't matter to me how they interpret it. :-)

Today's Bible reading is John Chapter 10
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jhn&c=10&v=1&t=NLT
In which Jesus says, 14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my own sheep, and they know me, 15 just as my Father knows me and I know the Father. So I sacrifice my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also. They will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock with one shepherd."

You know, it's been like two weeks since I gave a

FUCK FUCK FUCK .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... FUCK
FUCK ..................... .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... .. FUCK .......... FUCK
FUCK ..................... .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... .. FUCK .......... FUCK
FUCK FUCK .......... .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... .. FUCK FUCK ..........
FUCK ..................... .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... .. FUCK FUCK ..........
FUCK ..................... .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... .. FUCK .......... FUCK
FUCK ..................... .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... .. FUCK .......... FUCK
FUCK ..................... .. FUCK FUCK FUCK .. .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... FUCK

and I have a suspicion that nobody else really gives a

FUCK FUCK FUCK .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... FUCK
FUCK ..................... .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... .. FUCK .......... FUCK
FUCK ..................... .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... .. FUCK .......... FUCK
FUCK FUCK .......... .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... .. FUCK FUCK ..........
FUCK ..................... .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... .. FUCK FUCK ..........
FUCK ..................... .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... .. FUCK .......... FUCK
FUCK ..................... .. FUCK .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... .. FUCK .......... FUCK
FUCK ..................... .. FUCK FUCK FUCK .. .......... FUCK .. FUCK .......... FUCK

either, Mutejus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao0k9qDsOvs

Come to Jesus, sung by Chris Rice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puG_jl22z2Y&feature=related

An appropriate answer, sung by Trent Reznor (to this day one of the scariest fucking songs I've ever heard):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THHiJQLFayg

Today's Bible Reading is John Chapter 11
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jhn&c=11&v=1&t=NLT
In which tells Martha, "“I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. 26 Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die. Do you believe this, Martha?” and then brings her brother Lazarus back to life. After hearing this report from many people, the high priest prophesied as follows: John 11: 49b: "You don’t know what you’re talking about! 50 You don’t realize that it’s better for you that one man should die for the people than for the whole nation to be destroyed."
51 He did not say this on his own; as high priest at that time he was led to prophesy that Jesus would die for the entire nation. 52 And not only for that nation, but to bring together and unite all the children of God scattered around the world."

Today's song celebrating the glories of Jesus is by our friends, Finntroll. Do you dare to seek a translation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKlgbF2kmPY

Timothy 2

Special Instructions for Men and Women

8 I want the men everywhere to pray. Men who lift their hands in prayer must be devoted to God and pleasing to him. They must be men who keep themselves from getting angry and having arguments.

9 And I want the women to make themselves attractive in the right way. Their clothes should be sensible and appropriate. They should not draw attention to themselves with fancy hairstyles or gold jewelry or pearls or expensive clothes. 10 But they should make themselves attractive by the good things they do. That is more appropriate for women who say they are devoted to God.

11 A woman should learn while listening quietly and being completely willing to obey. 12 I don’t allow a woman to teach a man or tell him what to do. She must listen quietly, 13 because Adam was made first. Eve was made later. 14 Also, Adam was not the one who was tricked. [a] It was the woman who was tricked and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved in their work of having children. They will be saved if they continue to live in faith, love, and holiness with sensible behavior.

----

Thus it seems women are saved not through Jesus, but through their function as baby factories.

Also women must learn in silence and thus not lead the learning - this prohibition on female scientists/academics is quite clear.

And obviously justified because Adam and Eve were literal characters and not some figurative creation myth...

Orathaic, here's the footnote to verse 15 from the New Living Translation:
2:15) Or-- will be saved by accepting their role as mothers, or-- will be saved by the birth of the Child. Another thing to remember is that Paul is giving women advice for his generation--wisdom, not necessarily a commandment from God. See I Cor 7:25, where Paul states: "Now regarding your question about the young women who are not yet married. I do not have a command from the Lord for them. But the Lord in his mercy has given me wisdom that can be trusted, and I will share it with you."

Conclusions: 1) Women are saved by the birth of the Child, Jesus, but in a special sense, since only women are capable of giving birth. 2) Paul may well just be giving advice to the women of his day. The Bible does teach that the man is the head of the household, but that the husband and wife should "submit yourselves one to another," and compares the love that the husband should give the wife to Jesus' love, a sacrificing love, willing to die to save the bride.

interesting stuff ....... when do we get 16?

Look out everyone. Now Mutejus is quoting the footnotes! Gospel just got real.

Yes, but the passage on educating women in silence clearly implies no questioning being allowed - while this may be advice rather than a commandment, how are we to determine which is which? And who is going to stand against the interpretation which is disempowering to women, to the point of abuse?

@random-insults, if you don't want to take part in a discussion feel free to not talk at all. Or go ahead and create your own thread. (this is self-moderation i would personally prefer if you didn't try to derail topics - and i say that even as i try to engage in this topic without subscribing to it's premise)