Oh I'm not backing out, but I certainly don't want to offer it to anyone else!

thats understandable

Where do you live anyway? I wonder what kind of 'tenner' I'm getting.
As to where to draw the line, the issue in this case wasn't whether its illegal for me to download a CD. No one seemed to take that side; it was whether providing those links are illegal.

im assuming becuase he said "tenner" that he lives in england

ah, they have 'tenners' in the UK?

A tenner is ten pounds. Same with a fiver :P

see learn something everyday :)

Ah yes sorry - I thought most people know where I live. I'm from Bristol, in southern England. But a fair point on how much it is, the longer I wait the less this will be worth anyway, what with the UK economy.
Wow, a lot of appologies here from me. I know this issue wasn't about the legality, but the person i was arguing with took a different view. He said that if I thought it was acceptable to lend a friend a book/CD/film etc it was OK for him to download that book/CD/film as to the companies its just the same as me lending it to him, just that the guy lending it to him might be on other side of the planet.

True, but there's several differences. Someone giving you a book denies him of the ability to read it. COPYING digital files and giving them to you is the same as photocopying every page of the 300 page novel, binding it, and giving it to you. If people want to make comparisons to justify theft, at least make the comparisons sufficiently accurate.

One should always bet rhinos, not tenners...

Or a monkey at least.

And yes, I am a cockney by birth.

hey figle im in bristol to, where abouts?iv lived most of my life in london flash and have never heard rhinos!

Most everyone my age, if they haven't directly themselves pirated, has somehow positively benefitted from piracy..... so I want to include this disclaimer before I continue: I have seen about a dozen torrented movies and have maybe two or three pirated songs in my collection. My brother is a hardcore pirate and got most of these things for me, myself I have never used a torrent or whatever else. I have almost certainly also broken copyright laws in others ways such as the burning of CDs which I then give to friends or take from friends. I also played on a burned version of Starcraft a few years ago.

Now that that's out of the way, I want to make clear that I think piracy is indeed theft. There is a very fundamental principle behind copyright law, a principle you can find on a school's playground even amongst the very young. When someone says, "hey I thought of it first," it is then usually accepted that whoever thought of an idea first gets to have jurisdiction over what is done with the idea. Most people just want their work attributed to them, want a little say in how their work is used, and yes, if its their only line of work, most often want some monetary compensation if someone is going to use it. So there you are, with all that in mind, governments wrote copyright laws. Though breaking them usually does not immediately have a direct and emotional impact on anyone, as a whole, all the crimes have this effect. How must it feel for a music artist struggling to come up with "that new song" knowing that half the people who listen to it won't even pay for it? If an artist wants to release something for free without usage restrictions, that's their choice, but if they copyright it, its because they want those rights for coming up with something people like that everyone else wants when they do the same. It's only right to obey copyright laws. My two cents.

I put the disclaimer at the top just so you know that I am indeed very much a hypocrite on this issue; piracy is just that widespread and accepted among my peers that I have barely managed to steer clear of it. And of course I could have done more to stay away and not condone it through my actions but sometimes I value social acceptance above that, and for that I am a hypocrite.

The issue is where to draw the line though Dingle. How about if I rip a CD onto my computer and then lend it to my brother?
Or a friend? How about his friend? etc.
trim - Northwest, it's a great city isn't it. Still, can't wait to get out!

i havnt been here that long, it is a lovely city though espically when its hot, bit boring when all my mates are back in london though.Northwest?i dont know bristol that well, im in westbury on tyrm

OK. Two questions.

1. Do we now seek out the inventors of cassette tapes, and arrest them for the same reason?

2. Do we now close all libraries?

Sorry to double post, but stupidity riles me.

This has never been about the artists.

This is about protecting an outdated business model.

rhino = money in general;
pony = £25
monkey = £500

score = 20 ton = 100

What? No responses.

Come on people. Think hard.

What Mapleleaf? You thought your post was that intellectual and deserving of a response within 2 hours? Wow, aren't we self important...

Actually, I thought that I was just pointing out the obvious, you pompous jackass.

'come on people. Think hard..... you pompous jackass'.

Pot, this is kettle. Kettle, this is pot.

Good one.

Still no reasoned response though. I'd like to indicate that I expected better from you, but that would be a lie.

1. No
2. No

I'm actually surprised that less people are defending TPB. It's theft, but it's so prevalent and prolific, I'd have thought most of you were pirates. Thucydides post makes it seem like he's pirated very little and feels really guilty about it...

If it helps, I personally pirate enormous amounts of music, movies, and television. The only music I buy is from more obscure artists that I feel really need the money, but otherwise the rest of my roughly 7000 songs are completely and utterly pirated. If I didn't pirate, I wouldn't buy the music, because I don't have the money to buy 7000 songs. I'd likely rely on internet radio. The only live shows and concerts I've been to are to bands that I've only discovered through pirating.

I probably have about 50 pirated movies on my hard drive, many of them I've seen in theatres or have rented, and they have no effect on how often I go to see new movies in theatre. If anything, they may have increased the amount of movies I see in theatres if I'm eager to see a sequel of a good movie, though for the most part I'm extremely wary of sequels. If I didn't pirate movies, I'd probably rely on watching movies with friends so we can all see each other's collections.

I pirate a few shows now and then, but I don't generally watch a lot of TV. Typically I do this to catch up on a show that I'm watching on TV, or because I missed and episode. If I didn't pirate these shows then I probably wouldn't watch a lot of the shows that I do watch on TV because I wouldn't have caught up, or I would have been lost after missing a couple episodes.

In each case, I don't think my pirating has really denied anyone much revenue, and in many cases has increased revenue. Also I always spread the word about music, movies, or shows that I like.

Yes, it's theft, but in my mind it's not as big a deal, because I don't think I really deprive anyone of anything. If I stole bread, then someone else wouldn't have that bread, but if I steal a song, it's not as if they don't have that song anymore. Common sense tells you that it's illegal, and there's no use arguing technicalities like, "oh they just posted links" and such, but common sense also has me wondering if the adverse effects of pirating are overstated, and there are definitely positive effects of pirating that are largely ignored.

Chrispminis, I pirate as well. Some music, music I would never buy in absence of torrents. I do download TV shows I miss on TV (even though I have Tivo), shows which I would just do without. So again, no revenue lost.

Since the advent of torrents, however, I have stopped renting movies, so there is a direct loss of revenue.

What I do is illegal. I can't defend The Pirate Bay just because I find it convenient. it IS illegal, I am well aware.

i agree with you crisp. I dont claim that what TPB are doing is legal, it clearly isnt according to most legal jurisdictions , i would say that the law is wrong. As long as i keep reading about the millions hollywood actors are paid for their roles in movies and musicians are paid then the RIAA and MPAA can go and fuck themselves. Few hundred years ago these people who wandering minstrels and court jesters, since when is their contribution to society worth 20 million every 6 months?

I live outside my home country in Japan, without torrents i would die of boredom on tired weeknights. I DL loads of tv shows (daily,fringe,dollhouse,lie to me,inbetweeners,peepshow,the wire, doctor who, the shield,terminator etc) as they are on free to air (or available to US based IPs only via the official website) i dont feel that is in any way approaching theft.

I also DL some music, not lots but to be honest i haven't bought that a CD(with the exception of Radioheads-in Rainbows and a few smaller local artists) for many years. But the music i DL is only successful bands who have made bucket loads of cash anyway.

I DL some movies but usually i wait until the DVD rip has been scene released. i dont own a tv or a dvd player so riding my bike to the not so close dvd rental(is it even still open?) is out of the question.

I don't mind micropayment models as a way to go, im worried about credit card charges ect but. Whats the point of a site bragging that a movie/song costs 99 (US) cents when i will use aan australian credit card, and be charged a fee for it)

dingle, dont confuse Illegal with Wrong. sure the two may coexist in some ways(murder,rape etc) but copyright law.... nah

I never used the word wrong Sean. But I believe it is wrong. My theft has decreased the revenue at my local BLockbuster. And you can try to justify it saying its a multi-million dollar enterprise paying millionaire actors, etc. But that doesn't change the facts.