The issue I see is that players sent messages under the assumption that they are and will remain private. People have shared personal information in game messages, political points of view, and many other things that they may wish to remain private. It would be like Facebook making your private messages public! So in order to use the messages in any particular game, I would think that each person in that game would have to give permission, even if other players have given blanket permission for all of their messages, because they could comment or even copy other players' messages and thus violate what was assumed to be confidential communications.

It's a tricky situation. Even if anonymised, what do you do if people put have identifiable data in their posts?

If the purpose of the disclosure is research, I'd suggest you have a signed agreement for the following:

1- No identifiable data published
2- All data is solely for the use of the study/researcher and will not be passed on / will be deleted after it is used.

etc.

@Majus - While I see your connection between webdip and Facebook, there is one big difference. Facebook has a massive terms of service that you have to accept to join their site that was drawn up by teams of lawyers. I am sure that somewhere in that you can see whether or not (I'm assuming not) personal messages can be shared. We have none of that here. While everyone has been operating under the assumption that in-game messages will not become public, I doubt that there is anything legally that keeps kestas from making it so. It's his site and, ultimately, if he really wants to, there really isn't a thing anyone can do about it. Now, because he is asking, I am sure that he is really trying to get a feel for what everyone wants, but no one here can stop him from doing it if he decides to.

And with all of the shit people post on the forum, I can't believe that any in-game talk will be more damning than a cursory look at the forum.

Anyone who has played with enough people will have either figured out the habits of other players, or will have heard the same things from so many different players, that I can't see it being of any advantage to anyone having the press.

I would like to get some side statistics out of his research on how many times the following phrases are used:

This is quite embarrassing, I meant to support you to (region) and entered it backwards

Sorry, I changed my orders to the ones we agreed on but I guess I didn't hit save

If you don't stab (country) I will throw the solo to (leader)

FUCK YOU, you worthless stabbing coward pussy! I will attack you so hard, your kids will cry!!

What jimgov said.

"Assuming he read through the text and then matched the text to the particular game out of thousands, he would found out that I lie. I don't see the big deal."
I always assume anything anyone says in a game message is a lie or a con until proven otherwise. I expect everybody else does the same. Part of the skill in diplomacy is extracting the truth from the lies.

"will be deleted after it is used."

This is better. In the highly unlikely event that other researchers need to double check the data, they can request it directly from WebDip. There are lots of old data just sitting around in storage at research institutions for no good reason, including data which were thought to be anonymised at the time but which modern data mines can de-anonymise.

Coordinate directly with the board or supervisors to ensure that deletion does occur.

Suggest to this researcher that only anon games are needed. Games in which players know who's who introduce the potential for subconscious, unintended metagaming which is far less representative of international relations. Anon games depend only on each nation's board position and in-game discussions.

One option is to let him read the games (in my personal case after I've approved using them) and mark in black any personal information (whether referring to the real person or to the webdip person). Then the characters in that part are replaced by black squares, I mean digitally, not on paper. He saves that version onto his PC and then he should probably even be allowed to disclose that data if he wants to send a publication to a peer-reviewed journal.

I hate the idea of anyone having my press. That said, I'd make an exception in this case and default to whatever Kestas decides to do.

Well, this is a good way to kill the site by stifling free speech. If people know their chat in ge is monitored outside the site, they will stop chatting amd may as well play gunboat. I do *not* give permission for any chat of mine or involving me (draugnar) to be used for this study.

@Draug - It's all well and good that you say you don't give permission, but no one needs it. kestas can chose to give it up and you have no say. Just posting that you don't give permission really means nothing.

It's all well and good you say he doesn't but everything I write, according to International Copyright, is my private communication copyrighted and owned by me. Look it up. He would be violating copyright without explicit permission and as we have no ToS, he doens't have that. See, ToSs protect the user as well as the site. I will sue for copyright violation and win if my private posts are revealed. The onus in private communications is on the defendant to prove the plaintiff had no reason to believe his posts were private. By virtue of the fact Kestas has asked her (and I have taken screen shots so this will still be in evidence if he tries to remove it) it becomes clear even *he* felt the in game messages were private and he needed to get permission. Rather damning evidence, wouldn't you say?

@Draug - Are you a copyright lawyer? Because last I heard you are a programmer. I would love to hear from someone who actually knows the law concerning this matter. Not someone who is pretending to know it. Any copyright lawyers out there?

And just what the hell are you talking about during the game that has you so concerned? I mean, are you giving away government secrets in order to secure a SC?

Jimgov - as a software developer (i.e. holder of numerous copyrights) I think I know enough to speak with certainty, especially as I won a similar lawsuit when someone stole code I wrote when they looked at someone else's email then proceeded to try and sell it to my company (not knowing I was the owner - the idiot).

Draugnar, I'd like to hire you to sue a few people in webDip that copy and pasted my private messages to the global tab of my games, Babak and Jacob come to mind, from a game we played with them. Any interest?

And it isn't that I have anything to hide necessarily, but I don't know everything I've written so there could be some.personally revealing information and as there was a presumption of privacy, this is a significant breach of that presumption we all.had. I know I will no longer just chat in these games and will stick to plans until all my obligations are completed, then take a break and.reevaluate whether I want to continue here or not.

@jimgov - it's funny, you think that you have to be a lawyer to know about International Copyright...

I can recommend a good attorney in Butler County who may be able to get you in touch with one in your home county if you like.

lol. But stealing something tangible or with intrinsic value (I'm assuming that code would fall under this) is different from something like this. Withought lawyerspeak being accepted, and no one ever telling you that your communication would never be revealed, I don't think it is cut and dried. I would still rather hear from a lawyer on this.

Something like, you know, eating a BigMac and thinking "Wow, they must be professional cooks..."

@BOV - So are you prepared to make the call? Go ahead. I would love to hear from you on this matter. Do you have any idea as to why there are copyright lawyers out there making a fortune? Because people need them.

And the Big Mac example. Epic failure. Totally irrelevant.

Some people who care about privacy don't apply different standards for different content. They only care about the principle. That is a fair-minded and respectable stance.

The copyright claim is unlikely to stand up to a fair use claim. The stronger argument would be from privacy laws. Without a ToS stating otherwise, there is a "reasonable expectation of privacy" on two-way communications mediated by a single third party. Kestas could safely give away any communications sent to Kestas himself, in addition to any global chats. But as for chats between jimgov and me, only jimgov or I could be safe in giving away those chats. It would be an interesting legal battle if someone were to sue. (ToS are supposed to keep things from becoming interesting. ;)

There's an easier way that is unlikely to involve angry court filings, and should preserve good will among everyone. And I'm sure Kestas wants good will even if legal challenges are unlikely. Just let people opt-out of having their chats or games included in the data, and try to be thorough by sending an email to all users, active and inactive, about plan and the opt-out. Even better, opt-in. Interesting technical problems are so much more fun than interesting legal problems.

IANAL, but I've been advised by the company lawyers on similar issues.

Cohen, Todd, Kite, and Stanford. Tell Stan Stanford I sent you.

@gavrilop - So in MM's example above, are people technically breaking the law by copying and pasting PMs into global chat?

"Draugnar, I'd like to hire you to sue a few people in webDip that copy and pasted my private messages to the global tab of my games, Babak and Jacob come to mind, from a game we played with them. Any interest?"

To address this seriously, Babak and Jacob are legally allowed to give away private communications which you addressed to them. It's not at all the same legal question as Kestas could face.

Agree with gavrilop. I'll ask Stan his opinion Monday but I bet he will say I have a reasonable expectation of privacy and that it would require a court order to release this communication.

I will sign anything. There is nothing that I have said on PM that concerns me in the least. Actually, I think that the researcher will be bored to tears by most of the PMs. But some people should be shitting themselves if what they say on the forum goes out somewhere and they are actually looked at by more than us here. The men with the straight jackets will be coming for some of you.