Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 935 of 1419
FirstPreviousNextLast
AverageWhiteBoy (314 D)
14 Jul 12 UTC
Youtube Music Thread
No words. Just links and likes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swW0f_9z_R0
26 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
13 Jul 12 UTC
US sex ed, public policy vs ignorant religiosity?
(see inside)
93 replies
Open
pjmansfield99 (100 D)
14 Jul 12 UTC
Any Mods online?
I know its a weird time but just wondered if anyone was around?
5 replies
Open
damian (675 D)
14 Jul 12 UTC
So has Draugnar finally matured and can I take him off my mute list?
Draug need not answer. I won't see it. But does anyone else what to chime in with their opinion so I can decide if it is safe to take him off? I kind of miss his ferociously bombastic posts, but he got so over the top in his youthful desire to act tough I had to mute him or kill him before his (mental) 21st birthday, and the former was the better option
6 replies
Open
Maniac (184 D(B))
13 Jul 12 UTC
First cut is the deepest
Circumcision - religious right that needs defending or child abuse? Germany court has ruled it illegal.
84 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Jul 12 UTC
Compliment thread
In this thread you must compliment the poster above you. We've done this before and it was pretty funny and also not the usual catastrophe.
92 replies
Open
basvanopheusden (2176 D)
13 Jul 12 UTC
Anyone from the Princeton area?
I am moving to Princeton for a research project at the university. Does anyone here live in Princeton, or in New Jersey in general?
1 reply
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
10 Jul 12 UTC
Hey everyone! My wife is on Webdip!!
I won't give away her screen name and you won't find her in any of my games, but she's in a couple of games right now and having a blast! How cool is that?
62 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
12 Jul 12 UTC
"Now Where Have I Heard That Before..." (A Game Played Entirely On Quotes?)
Every message you send has to be a quote from a movie, TV show, book, song, etc., with the exception of locations (as finding a quote for moving to the Ruhr is a bit too difficult, I think)...an example, say, Italy asking Russia for help could be:
"With our combined strength (@Budalest) we can END this destructive conflict, and bring order to the galaxy, er, Europe!" :p
8 replies
Open
Sbyvl36 (439 D)
13 Jul 12 UTC
I'm building a website, come join it.
Hey guys, I've started a new website, and will be getting a domain name this weekend. Check it out. Right now the address is

http://sbyvl.webs.com/
30 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
14 Jul 12 UTC
Jellybean and Google NOW
Anyone have 4.1 yet?

I've been playing around with Google NOW a bit and it looks like it might actually be quite useful.
0 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
09 Jul 12 UTC
Returning to webdip
After a year away, I've decided to come back to webdip for the duration of my summer holiday (as opposed to just making the occasional post on the forums every 3 months). Not playing any games until I've got past my week away that starts in a fortnight. How's webdip getting on?
26 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
13 Jul 12 UTC
Rangers FC (Scottish football)
So, today Scottish Football League clubs have voted that the "new" Rangers FC, arising out of the old, bankrupt and liquidated, Rangers, will enter the league structure in Division 3 (the fourth tier of league football in Scotland).
7 replies
Open
MichiganMan (5121 D)
13 Jul 12 UTC
Friday Night CHICKEN SHIT!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=94539

25 replies
Open
cspieker (18223 D)
13 Jul 12 UTC
EOG - Friday Knife Fight
gameID=94528

Two words: Boh Ring!!!
4 replies
Open
MichiganMan (5121 D)
13 Jul 12 UTC
WTA-GB-144
Who was France in the cancelled WTA-GB-144, and why wouldn't you cancel?
0 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
13 Jul 12 UTC
Christian Edifi tablet based on gay-rights-supporting Android
http://unicornbooty.com/blog/2012/07/13/ruh-roh-the-official-christian-tablet-is-a-homo-loving-gay-marriage-endorsing-android/
0 replies
Open
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
12 Jul 12 UTC
Shiny Medal Challenge
Dear fellow Shiny Medal players,

I challenge you to a WTA full press game. Only players who have donated and hence have a Shiny Medal can join. Please post your preferred bet size and phase length, though please nothing much more than 100 D.
7 replies
Open
Fortress Door (1837 D)
13 Jul 12 UTC
qwickie gunbowt
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=94467
13 replies
Open
mscott (384 D(G))
12 Jul 12 UTC
Throwing a Game
When is it acceptable to throw a WTA game( or any game for that matter, but WTA has the stiffest "penalty") knowing that you could force a draw? Are there ever grounds to believe that this is ever acceptable? I don't believe so, but looking to be proven wrong. I am of the school that would say Win; failing that, draw. Period. Curious to know what others think.
40 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
09 Jul 12 UTC
Talk about generations
Generation gaps and cultural differences. Your thoughts?
98 replies
Open
Alderian (2425 D(S))
07 Jul 12 UTC
July Ghost Ratings
http://tournaments.webdiplomacy.net/theghost-ratingslist
http://tournaments.webdiplomacy.net/theghost-ratingslist/ghost-ratings-by-category
31 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
11 Jul 12 UTC
I'm Still Angry About... (Weekly Thread)
Once a week, I'm gonna complain about stuff here. You can either agree with me or yell at me for being stupid, but don't try and piss me off, 'cause I just ain't been in the mood lately.
54 replies
Open
Zmaj (215 D(B))
11 Jul 12 UTC
Should cheating accusations be allowed?
Because it's an open issue.
77 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
12 Jul 12 UTC
Shopping and handbags
See below.

19 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
12 Jul 12 UTC
Sacred Aliens EOG
gameID=89589

What the fuck was France thinking by giving Italy the game on the final move?
7 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Jul 12 UTC
Remember that debate we were having on amending the US Constitution?
This is timely:

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/07/08/another-stab-at-the-us-constitution
0 replies
Open
Maniac (184 D(B))
12 Jul 12 UTC
Should I be worried
See inside
9 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
12 Jul 12 UTC
I go away for ten days and this happens...
... (see inside)
4 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
29 Jun 12 UTC
Existential risks
http://www.existential-risk.org/concept.html
Page 1 of 2
FirstPreviousNextLast
 
Zmaj (215 D(B))
29 Jun 12 UTC
It's not a risk, it's a certainty: you'll die, orathaic. Too bad, huh?

As for believing in a silly concept like a monolithic "humanity", please join: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Humanity-as-Religion/108728492484827
Zmaj (215 D(B))
29 Jun 12 UTC
How boring. One can't convince people that the future of humanity is nothing to us. We'll all be dead and buried. And believing that we will "live" in our works or children is just good old religion, a shadow play that makes no sense.

So what is humanity to us? Nothing, dear Horatio. The same lie that made our parents keep the civilization going will make us keep it going even further, on and on, like mindless ants working for a future without them.
Draugnar (0 DX)
29 Jun 12 UTC
How does mankind bringing about his own destruction qualify as premature? If we do it to ourself, then we were destined to die at that time. It was right on schedule. Does anyone say the dinosaurs died out prematurely because the planet killer meteor that triggered the ice age killed them? No, it was their time to go, so even if we are taken out by a natural disaster of that magintude, it wasn't premature.
Zmaj (215 D(B))
29 Jun 12 UTC
Spamming with a suitably depressing video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7bxXjQL3cY

I guess that's what some people who lose their faith in humanity would look like: docile zombies. Others would be Nietzsche's supermen... I hope.
Draugnar (0 DX)
29 Jun 12 UTC
Interesting song and video. But who is driving the car at the end? The kid who was driving the whole time isn't and he just dropped his dad at the psych ward.
Zmaj (215 D(B))
29 Jun 12 UTC
Hard to tell. There are a dozen interpretations out there, from the boring ("he was just fantasizing and his dad is actually driving") to the obscure ("father and son are actually the same person").
Draugnar (0 DX)
29 Jun 12 UTC
Well, I definitely liked it. Very creative and thought provoking and the music was actually quite good.
Zmaj (215 D(B))
29 Jun 12 UTC
I'm glad. And the director, Philippe Andre, is actually famous for car commercials, lol.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
'How does mankind bringing about his own destruction qualify as premature?'

This is like saying how does a teenager taking their own life qualify as premature. Cut shorter than possibility, not reaching potential, and failing to avoid obvious threats... ok there is no other comparable group to measure lifespan against (we could compare us with the other hominids: Neanderthal, Flores Man (hobbits), and Denisovans OR we could compare with the larger family of Great Apes, with the five current species, Bonobos, Chimpanzees, Gorilla, Orangutang and Humans...)

What i find objectionable is the homo-centric views put forward, even the idea that human-like computer intelligences will be able to experience 'life like us' - i mean why would a computer intelligence want to experience that (other than being designed to want to be like humans) why would it be limited to simulating one mind at a time? would it not also be likely that many minds would collectively share ideas and perspectives to form a greater hive-mind (completely unlike the borg...) something which doesn't have individuals in the sense that we talk about them... Will that level of technology possibly allow humans to communicate by downloading ideas from each other (to understand what another person is talking about) perhaps going beyond the limits of the written/spoken word...

At what point does the individual become subsumed by the greater whole? Their culture... oh wait, we're already part of a greater hive-mind, at least currently we are communicating on a level far greater than was possible to previous generations - this will inevitable change how we behave...

What if we consider culture to be analogous to a living being?
orathaic (1009 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
Well for the analogue to work it has to have similar qualities. (this is not a Gaia hypothesis i'm thinking of) What do we see? well individual parts which are specialised ~ similar to cell specialisation in multicellular organisms. We have growth.

Organization - yep.
Metabolism: Transformation of energy - yep.
Adaptation - yep.
Response to stimuli - hard to say, but yeah, a culture which is threatened responds, perhaps with warfare...
Reproduction - Not in the same way.... but you do get different cultures cross-fertilising each other, it does create a new culture and not all cultures are compatible...
Homeostasis: self-regulation - regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state - yep, we do this by indoctrination of the new components (people), policing to enforce behaviour, terra-forming/landscaping to control the environment; symbiosis with farmed plants and animals to guarantee an energy source; lots of things...
orathaic (1009 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
So this leaves us with a trans-human life-form; we are all part of it, the educated, informed, 'cultured' among us take part in the decision making (at least on some level) we're like the neurons in the brain...

But we try to each replicate the total decision-making of the culture (via democracy) in each brain... which indicates a lower level of organisation/co-ordination than most life-forms have. (again the internet is increasing this considerably)

Our current culture places a lot of value on individual freedom and at least in some places is against centralized decision-making; which is fine, we can still be part of this transhuman entity while valuing the fact that individual freedom MAY increase the total capacity (ability to do) of the culture.

Without centralized decision-making we also give up the idea that anyone can control our economy; instead by allowing the 'invisible hand' of Adam Smith to guide us we are acknowledging that the emergent decision-making which is beyond any individual is actually the choice which we prefer.

We are basically valuing individuality while ceding it to the trans-human culture life-form when it comes to economic decision making.

While i'm not going to make any value judgements about this; I wonder where else we could cede such control, I also don't doubt that cultures which are better at self-perpetuating will exist for longer.

Yes this is about existential threats, the things which exist are the ones which were good at surviving. Our cultures may merge into one, or have many overlapping mutually inter-dependant symbiosises - something like organs in a body... What will continue to exist will be the culture/life-form which is best at avoiding those risks.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
Ugh what the hell guys.

If you don't care about humanity, you = bad person.

Fairly cut and dry.

@draugnar - I'm pretty sure that when someone dies at the age of less than 40 or so, and especially if they're a minor, then we call it a premature death. Yes, it was their time, and if you're a determinist, there was nothing that could have been done differently, it was destiny.

That shouldn't stop us from believing it should have been different though. Jesus.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
This isn't about 'Humanity' as a religion (whatever that is meant to mean) it is that the qualities of a culture are analogous to those of a life-form.

Now of course this isn't perfect, but the analogue is accurate enough that we can make some predictions. We can also post-dict to use this idea to describe the past.

Cultural exchanges in our history which involved some of these 'life-like' attributes. This isn't a religion because i'm not suggesting that you behave in some specific way based on the idea; i'm not trying to control how you behave, because i'm not a trans-human culture life-form. I'm sure the culture will do what it can to use you for it's own selfish ends... it may use you to circumvent laws; offering profit to run drugs (perhaps) - at least that's an impact of the free market.

I don't know where else the culture itself can be seen impacting our daily lives...
orathaic (1009 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
in our lives sex and violence are not driven directly by economic factors; but they are still heavily influenced by our culture; I might claim that culture makes sex out to be far more important than it really is... useful if you want to guarantee replacement level population growth.

Violence is made out to be heroic. To have the potential for violence is definitely a survival trait, but only some kinds of violence are acceptable...
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
There's a pretty simple reason why I want humans or their descendants to live on as long as possible:

Humans are capable of Happy with a capital H. All of life's purpose is derived from pursuing happiness in whatever way you can/do. My way is in pursuing as much happiness for as many people as I can.

Happiness with an H is the kind of happiness experienced and sought by humans, not the kind that, say, a rat has when it finds yummy trash. It depends on rationality and high consciousness/sentience.

Thus if I am to be egalitarian in this respect I have to hope that people never perish entirely, that there are always people alive and being happy, even if I am dead do I hope for this.

Thus I care about future generations in the same way that I care about other people who are alive today. In the same way I want the best for my brother and friends, I want the best for the people alive today, and the people that will be alive tomorrow. I hope they are alive for a long time to come.

It sort of makes me scratch my head to realize that there really are people out there who legitimately do not care about future generations. Maybe they don't have kids? If they have kids, then I am truly at a loss.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
@Thucy, while i don't disagree/oppose with your egalitarian views; i do also sympathize with vhemnt (see: http://www.vhemt.org/ )

who believe that we're better off dead... or not that we would be better off dead, but that everything else would be. You do have to admit that your focus on humanity is rather ego-centric. As if we're the most important thing in existance...

- just exactly what the members of a successful culture would think :)
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
No I don't. I won't apologize for being anthropocentric, the end.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
Fucking up the environment only matters to me in that it is our environment. If no humans lived here, fucking up the earth's environment (via human action, let's say an orbital death ray) would bother only in that the complex life on this planet might lead to intelligent life.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
Thus while not perhaps wrong to destroy all life on earth excluding humans, it would be perhaps unwise, and regrettable. A poor choice, if you will.

But there is nothing inherently valuable about the universe or nature except that we live in it.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
I didn't suggest you apologize. Your entire world-view revolves entirely around human Happiness, as if there is nothing else worth valuing.

Which is entirely what a human who only values things which make him happy would say. Considering only the self, is centering your worldview on your own Ego. I'm not asking that you apologize, or even consider alternative views, I am merely stating that your point of view is this.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
It is possible to value a rock for it's own inherent existence, not because of how it makes you feel.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
"Your entire world-view revolves entirely around human Happiness, as if there is nothing else worth valuing. "

Correct. There is nothing else worth valuing with the possible exception of the well-being of other intelligent life, if it is found to exist (either on earth or in space or elsewhere).

And yes it is egocentric in that it satisfies my own happiness to pursue this aim.

I admit as much, but I charge that anyone who claims they are doing anything otherwise is being facetious. All conscious human action is taken with the aim of personal happiness, including seemingly bizarre behavior such as matyrdom. This is simply the reality. It used to bother me until I realized that the meaning of life was staring me in the face.
Fortress Door (1837 D)
30 Jun 12 UTC
^ i agree with Thucy here. All things people conciously do are to make themselves happier (or try to, at least)
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
"It is possible to value a rock for it's own inherent existence, not because of how it makes you feel."

Untrue. If you value the rock, it is because valuing the rock makes you feel good about yourself.

If you happen to have taken to the belief that humanity is a scourge on the earth, you will find happiness in placing moral worth on things that are not human.

You have not, however escaped that fact that you are doing this because it makes you happy.

Even if you hate happiness, and thus seek to become unhappy, you only do so to satisfy your own desires, a form of happiness.

There is no way out of being egocentric, friend. To call someone egocentric in the sense you are using is to call the sky blue.

What matters more is what it is that makes you happy. What do you value? I value all intelligent life and try to treat their pursuit of happiness as equal in intrinsic worth to my own - this is what satisfies my moral compass. There is no justification beyond that in terms of my own happiness.

You, or at least vhemnt, seems to find happiness in valuing the environment, or the earth, or universe, or whatever thing, as the ultimate moral worth.

Everyone makes this choice. Some people value just their family and treat everything else as a means to an end. Some people value (ahem Godwin's Law) the Germanic race above everything else. Some people value their country's well-being over everything.

There's no getting out of making a moral choice. And all moral systems are held by the adherent because this is the moral system that seems best to them, which, put another way, means it is the moral system that makes them feel the best about themselves. Do not be fooled by self-deprecation and altruism, they do not exempt you from ultimately being completely selfish.

I don't shy away from this despite planning to devote my life to humanitarian work. I am doing that because I think it is best for everyone in the world. But I only care about what is best for everyone in the world because doing so makes me happy. The end.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
You're crashing straight into the heart of my philosophy here, man. I have this shit thought out, written down. For me the issue is settled lol.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
'If you happen to have taken to the belief that humanity is a scourge on the earth, you will find happiness in placing moral worth on things that are not human.'

No! Well yes, this may infact be the case, but that something which satisfies your own happiness doesn't have your own interest at it's heart is not ego-centric. It is not based on the belief that your own happiness is paramount.

Even though whatever your belief may be happens to make you happy, you can still have a value system without yourself at the center. Sure ultimately you're going to do whatever makes you happy. But that doesn't have to be self-fish.

Just because I happen to be happy seeing other's prosper doesn't mean i'm not self-fish, my alturistic behaviour is still alturistic, even if it generates happiness for me. The quality of alturism, helping others and self-sacrificing, is that my resouces promote the well-being of others (by whatever i imagine their well-being to be perhaps... this may require some anthropomorphizing if i try to put the well-being of the earth ahead of my own - like the Gaian hypothesis might; i'm not in favour of such a hypothesis as it happens...)

The quality of selflessness still exists, regardless of the motivating factor within it.

There is still a difference between greedy selfish behaviour and altruistic selfish behaviour, and for you to deny that is complete bollocks.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
'You're crashing straight into the heart of my philosophy here, man. I have this shit thought out, written down. For me the issue is settled lol. '

Doesn't mean you're right :p
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
"Doesn't mean you're right :p"

Certainly not! But you may be pleased to learn that part of my philosophy is that I might be wrong and should constantly question it.

"It is not based on the belief that your own happiness is paramount. "

Yes it is. Even if you disavow this belief, this is the motivation for your actions.

I am for instance not at the center of my value system, but I at least acknowledge that my value system is what it is only because it satisfies me.

You may be fretting that if you admit that all action is selfish, that altruism and sacrifice lose meaning. Not at all. Like I said, it's just calling the sky blue. Admitting the truth about the motivation for your actions does not prevent altruistic behavior in any sense. It is just a statement of fact. Altruism is still a worthy thing and rightly honored by others. People tend to think altruism is good because most people value more than just themselves.

But you should remember that although most people do assign moral worth to more than just them, they only do so because this is what makes them happiest, or so they think.

I cannot be anything other than egalitarian. I cannot countenance the idea that a human being is less worthy of happiness than me. Thus, because believing anything other than what I believe about egalitarianism would bring me great moral pain (a kind of unhappiness), I have my belief. It is also rooted in empathy, but empathy is nothing more than the ability to feel for yourself the emotions you see someone else experiencing. If I had no empathy I would probably not give a damn about human beings other than myself.

Selflessness exists, of course. I am not attempting to undermine it. Indeed, I would be very upset if I came to the conclusion that there is no such thing as altruism or self-sacrifice - to me these are almost holy - more worthy than any other state. For me it's like an instinct to see it this way but there is an obvious reason too - I know that biologically I tend to favor myself above others - it's what the Darwinian beast which is certainly part of me wants. But this tendency is inconsistent with my beliefs, which are egalitarian and by extension self-sacrificial. Thus when I successfully do something self-sacrificial, I feel morally enriched - it is the joy of being generous, for example.

Thus by denying myself I stumble serendipitously upon happiness. I have seen this occur and take it as yet another reason for my belief in egalitarianism and self-sacrifice.

I never denied there is no difference between a selfless person and a truly self-centered person.

However what I did imply is that outside of any moral system (the details of which are dependent on what makes those who hold the beliefs happy), it is meaningless whether someone is being selfish or selfless. Both are acting on the same motivations, but one chooses a different path. Neither can be said to be different, though, except perhaps from a Darwinian perspective, which is amoral (which means outside of morality, does not mean has a bad morality).

So now, I hope, you see what I mean. Within an egalitarian system like my own, selflessness is a great thing, and a real thing, and something to strive for. But within a moral system where all people are a means to an end for me, selflessness is folly.

So that's the framework. What you have to do from there is try to engage people on their level - learn what their current moral system is, and appeal to aspects of their humanity that you believe they share with you in the hopes of converting them to your moral position, if, that is, your moral system places an importance on other people coming around to your view, which mine does.

semck83 (229 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
Orathaic, in your above list -- organization, metabolism, blah blah blah -- you conveniently left off individual consciousness, which, however, I think most people would hold to be the most important consideration in defining a single individual. So at that point the argument kind of falls apart (well -- relative to that criterion anyway).
orathaic (1009 D(B))
30 Jun 12 UTC
'I never denied there is no difference between a selfless person and a truly self-centered person.' - good then we're in agreement. Your views (which probably coincide with mine, by amd large) are entitely humancentric - valuing only what satisfies human egos and generates happiness (that this personally satisfies your own ego is like calling the sky blue, as you rightly point out)

Your value system places human ego as the central object of importance in the Universe, this i don't think it is overly wrong to describe it as egocentric. Though humancentric would be better...

@smeck - you are right, i was not trying to prove this 'culture is like life' analogy was a 'culture is like conscious/intelligent life' - i'm trying to describe the actual qualities, not tell people they should value this form of life. There is no arguement for how we should behave based on this idea, merely a way of looking at things.

Now i have infered a quality of decision-making from this; the invisible hand, whether this would qualify as conscious is not important (we would not be aware of such consciousness in any case) whether it is intelligent/directed is a seperate question; easier to answer perhaps.

What value people place on such a collective consciousness isn't what i find interesting, it is rather whether they can see it as something beyond themselves...

Page 1 of 2
FirstPreviousNextLast
 

51 replies
Page 935 of 1419
FirstPreviousNextLast
Back to top