Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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dubmdell (556 D)
14 Mar 12 UTC
The Wisdom of the Ancients
At prompting from semck, I went digging through the forum archives.
16 replies
Open
bolshoi (0 DX)
13 Mar 12 UTC
i don't want to work
so i haven't much enjoyed working. so maybe i'll go back to school. but i don't feel like paying anything for it. also i don't feel like contacting people for application references. isn't there some place, like the philippines or something where i can go to school for like $2 a year or something. without providing references?
20 replies
Open
gryncat (2606 D)
14 Mar 12 UTC
Need Three More
36 hour turns, descent bet, should hopefully be a good game. If we could get three more to jump in, that would be awesome: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=82651
0 replies
Open
Pemster (100 D)
14 Mar 12 UTC
World Diplomacy IX Strategy
Does anyone here know of any good sites for country-by-country strategies for the World Diplomacy variant? A quick Google search yielded nothing, but I find myself getting crushed by larger empires mid-game almost every time I play, and I'd like to know how to fix this.
6 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
12 Mar 12 UTC
YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT THE AFGHANS.
THEY EAT BARBARIANS ALIVE DOWN THERE. DON'T FUCK WITH ME
23 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
12 Mar 12 UTC
Still haven't really stabbed...
So after a few weeks on this site I posted a forum thread about reliability issues after stabbing, possibly even carrying on outside the game. Months later, I still haven't really stabbed anyone, except in situations where I had already been stabbed myself.
30 replies
Open
bolshoi (0 DX)
11 Mar 12 UTC
Are the people of The United States barbarians?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots
45 replies
Open
stranger (525 D)
13 Mar 12 UTC
joining games
I would really like to play games with more talented players than the usual bet15 noobs. I don´t want to seem arrogant, but I want to test my personal skills. I played lots of gunboat games to train my technique, and now I am thinking of joining a game bet 100 with anonymous players. How do I know those aren´t cheaters in there. Maybe I am paranoid, but this specific size of bet seems quite suspicious to me. Can anybody help me how to find adequate games?
8 replies
Open
acmac10 (120 D(B))
13 Mar 12 UTC
WebDip Fantasy Baseball League
Hey guys, in the fall we ran a pretty successful (except for two no-shows at the end) fantasy football league, so why not try it again for baseball? League will be on Yahoo (if someone recommends something different like ESPN, we're welcome) and size will be how many people we can gather.
24 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
13 Mar 12 UTC
GR poll
Geo, any update?
2 replies
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
13 Mar 12 UTC
Proposed Rule Change
In order to cut out the ambiguity that presently seems to exist about official action in unofficial variants, I suggest the following rule change (while still protesting any pretended recognition of such a policy under the present rules):
26 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
13 Mar 12 UTC
Rankings
Why do some people have rankings and some not?
5 replies
Open
bolshoi (0 DX)
13 Mar 12 UTC
failed stat question?
the bolshoi manner was interviewing for a new groom of the stool and the applicant claimed to have some kind of mathematical aptitude. i gave him this problem just to mess with him and he seemed to not give me much of an answer. is he qualified? for some reason this position seems to have a high attrition rate.
9 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
12 Mar 12 UTC
ATTENTION ECONOMICS PEOPLE
In a previous thread of obi's I said that I wished I could go back and switch my major to economics. I looked today and lo and behold, I still have time, so I'm doing it. What are some generally useful areas of study?
38 replies
Open
BostonPat (100 D)
12 Mar 12 UTC
New Player Here
Looking to play my first game. Let me know!
20 replies
Open
interpreter (100 D)
13 Mar 12 UTC
Got Skillz 2: Anon playing in the ancMed
Come join Got Skillz 2: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=83087 Anon players, Ancient Med map, only 25 to play.
0 replies
Open
dave bishop (4694 D)
12 Mar 12 UTC
Final Game 2
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=76725
This game was unfortunately cancelled, so no one will be able to see what happened in it (is this a flaw in the system?).
I thought I'd make this thread anyway in case people wanted to know who was who, or give a EoG for as far as the game got. I think it was good before the extended pause...
40 replies
Open
cirocvodka (0 DX)
13 Mar 12 UTC
My Game!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=83089#gamePanel
0 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
12 Mar 12 UTC
Psycho Sense tingling?
xxx
52 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
10 Mar 12 UTC
The Find and Kill Diplomat Game
Looking for 6 people to play a 5 point anonymous public press game. The whole point of the game is to find and crush me. Once I am killed I will tell everyone still alive so they can draw. Beware though, this is anon and I WILL try and fool everyone. And take pleasure if I succeed. Sign up!
15 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
12 Mar 12 UTC
PAGING DOGFORT, DOGFORT COME IN
RED LOBSTER TO DOGFORT, DO YOU COPY? OVER.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/088/322/lobster-dog-030110-main.jpg?1318992465
3 replies
Open
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
Languages
I love languages and linguistics, so I'm starting a thread about it in the hope that at least one thread here won't derail into a trollfest of shit-flinging. What languages do you speak or want to learn? What languages do you find interesting or beautiful? Are there any autodidacts here, sitting at home with Mandarin flashcards?
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I speak German and English. Hope to speak French and Italian someday.
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
Sounds like a Swiss mix, are you from there?
I speak French and English, am fairly good at Latin, am working on Italian and Esperanto, and am starting Russian next year. I love neat, tidy grammars, so I thank Fortuna every day that English was my first language :P
dubmdell (556 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
Oh damn, there are so many interesting ways to derail this thread while staying on topic. Have you followed the work of Bruce Lincoln in his recreation of Indo-European myths? I would happily email you a PDF of his work on the creation myth.

What about Dag Haug's work with tmesis in ancient Greek texts?

Any knowledge of the reconstructed Anatolian languages which are all dead?

Vietnamese is one of the most fascinating languages in the world because it is monosyllabic, or the academic term, isolating (English is agglutinative and German is inflecting, for what it's worth as counterpoints).

I could go on, but now I refrain myself. As for languages I know, ancient Greek, Latin, old Norse, old English, and a reading knowledge of German. Want to learn, Russian, Gothic, old church Slavic, Sanskrit, Icelandic. Interesting/ beautiful: the ones I have mentioned already, Romanian, Dutch, Icelandic, Vietnamese. Really, any language is beautiful in its own way, because of nuanced things like the gender of the sun or the gender of the earth (fatherland in German, motherland in Russian). It says a lot about the culture and mentality of at least the earliest speakers.

Damn, I could talk all day with you about this.
ulytau (541 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
I speak Czech, English and French, my Standard Chinese (please don't use Mandarin) is on a hiatus, my German is slowly fading away and my Spanish and Latin already faded away.
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
mckenzie, shouldn't it be "Fortunam"? ;)

All languages have their pros and cons though. Sure, Latin has a complex grammar, but to take English as an example, the spelling is horribly archaic. Just like Latin ablatives can be used for pretty much anything, any given English vowel can be spelled in five different ways. I learned English as a second language, and learning that though, through and bought rhyme with snow, new and caught...
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
dubmdell, I haven't followed those things closely, but any PIE reconstruction attempt is always very interesting. Why old Norse if I may ask? Myself, my first language is Swedish. I also speak Norwegian and English, and I am currently studying Arabic. I speak a little bit of French and want to improve it. In standard Swedish, we no longer have gendered nouns, but I speak a northern dialect that preserves them in some cases. The sun is feminine for me, as is the earth. A tidbit you might find interesting dubmdell, in Arabic, the consonants are divided between "sun" and "moon" consonants. The L sound in definite article al- gets assimilated when it's preceding a sun consonant. For example, you write al-shams ("the sun"), but you pronounce it ash-shams. "The moon" is al-qamar, which is pronounced as it's written. I'm not sure why they chose sun and moon to exemplify the rule, but it's pretty!
dubmdell (556 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
OH MY GODS Vaftrudner, that's so interesting!! (especially that the Swedish northern dialect preserves some gendering of nouns, and especially the sun/ moon distinctions in Arabic.)

Old Norse is just really fun and slangy. It is preserved in modern Icelandic, though my professor said the difference is Chaucer and modern English. Also, it is a good language to develop an understanding of PIE.

The PIE reconstruction of Anatolian languages has impacted Homeric studies slightly. Current scholarship is tending towards the Trojans having spoken Luwian due to a Hittite inscription in Trojan remains and linguistic analysis of Trojan names in the Iliad and Anatolian reconstructions.

I know Swedish is indo-European, but I am unfamiliar with its development. Do you know why it has lost gendered nouns?

I do wonder, if anyone can answer, why Germans hate the genitive case. There are some rather absurd dative work arounds when a genitive would do the job much more simply.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
09 Mar 12 UTC
I had gotten pretty fluent in German in HS; unfortunately, after 6 years of rarely speaking, I've lost most of it. It's a wonderful language, there's just never any reason for me to use it.
SacredDigits (102 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
Since apparently we don't want to say Mandarin, I used to be fluent in Putonghua, although I'm rusty now. I can do pretty well with Spanish, and I can read Japanese. I know a little Iroquois, but that's even more rusty.
@Vaft - Yeah, my origins are from numerous European countries, such as: Germany, Portugal, Italy and France.
Zarathustra (3672 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
Despite my interest in other languages, I can't seem to learn them. I have tried American Sign Language, Spanish, and German. I suck at all of them. This is particularly frustrating considering my desire to learn more complicated languages like Ethiopian or Lakota (or really any Native American language). I have an Ethiopian friend and he tried to teach me a few words in Ethiopian and wrote them down. It was incredibly interesting but I couldn't even get basic pronunciation correct.

I have a question for you guys: If it were possible to reconstruct PIE, do you think it would be understandable to any degree by speakers of its derivative languages? If so, which languages?
dubmdell (556 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
Zara, I have found that language acquisition improved considerably when I understood how to make sounds. For example, in Vietnamese, the alphabet had a ng and nh character. The g and h respectively indicate how to place the tongue, so the ng, instead of putting the tip of the tongue on the teeth and making a nasal noise, you shape your tongue like a g but then make the nasal noise. Compare wren, ring; fin, finger (although technically you make both an ng and g sound in finger). Perhaps knowing how to make sounds will help you also? The other big help for me was reading daily (out loud when I could, even if just to myself and incorrect in pronunciation) and narrating my morning routine ("I am brushing my teeth. I am putting on my socks. My socks sure are dirty!").

As for reconstructed PIE being mutually intelligible with descended languages, I would say no, or not well (if I may hedge). For one thing, the indo-European people were vocabulary deficient. They had no word for desert or sea, and this is evident in the lack of cognates in modern descendants. (interesting note, it is this vocabulary or lack thereof that leads scholars to speculate the steppes of Russia as the homeland.) Another reason would be sound shifts. Germanic languages especially would have difficulty understanding PIE. If mutual intelligibility were possible with any languages, I would peg Latin or Sanskrit because of morphological reasons (which I will expound upon with request, otherwise, I'll leave it at that). Considering, though, that even Latin, Sanskrit, and Greek (the original languages in the PIE hypothesis) are not mutually intelligible, I would further doubt PIE would be.

Certainly you phrased your question correctly, "if it were possible," because we (as an academic collective) certainly do not know enough to even write simple letters in PIE to each other.
dubmdell (556 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
*narrating my morning routine /in that language/
Mujus (1495 D(B))
09 Mar 12 UTC
'Thustra, by what methods have you tried to learn other languages? I found that while I was good at booklearning, I couldn't ever get a feel for another language until I was able to use it in a conversational setting. I have studied several language other than English, but I'm pretty bad at most of them!
Cybil Disorder (154 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
i speak english, french (canadian french, which is fine in Quebec, but I get funny looks when I speak to the French people from France) and enough Japanese and German to get by. I would love to learn Russian....has anyone tried learning Russian?
carpenter (645 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
Native Dutch, speaks Frisian (nonsense language (next to) nobody else speaks), English, and German beyond "well", I do speak Spanish (I'd like to get better at it) and French, one day I hope to express myself in Kantonese. In passive languages I do a lot better (and I like speaking languages that way more).
Thucydides (864 D(B))
09 Mar 12 UTC
I speak English natively, French fluently, and conversational Wolof and Chinese. I just started learning Chinese a few months ago.

I want to learn some Spanish, because I have no excuse not to have conversational Spanish in Texas, and a little Arabic too, at least so that I can try to read it out loud even without understanding. I was amazed at how so little Mandarin has already lit up so much of the world, even if I don't understand it all, at least I can see how you would.

My favorite thing about learning languages is kind of "seeing into the heads" of it's creators.

For instance tomorrow in Chinese (ming tian) literally means "bright day." And "you're welcome" in Wolof (noo ko bokk) literally means "we share it). I love getting these insights; they fascinate me in English when I notice them too.

(French has some great ones though - staring you in the face if you just look for a moment. "now" (maintenant) literally seems to mean "hand holding" which I love).

Anyway the most beautiful sounding language that I don't speak are mostly the ones I can't name.

Some western Chinese language... Uighur maybe.. I like a lot. I like the sound of many Indian and Native American languages too.

I have to admit that the longer I stay with French (bumping up on 10 years now) the more I appreciate its aesthetic. I used to just kind of jeer at people who told me they thought it was beautiful but I am very very slowly coming around to that opinion.

It's the liaison, of course.
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
09 Mar 12 UTC
dubmdell, Swedish is a descendant of old Norse, just like Norwegian, Danish, Icelandic and Faroese. Danish and Swedish lost the case system and the three genders gradually from the 16th to the 20th century. There are still remnants of old dative forms and genders etc., but they're not productive anymore. One example is that when we ask the time in Swedish, we ask "What is the clock?", and the reply can be "She's 11:30". The clock is still considered feminine in standard Swedish by many speakers, just as a remnant of the old gender system. We do have two noun classes still, though. The masculine and feminine nouns merged into a class we call "utrum", while the neutral nouns remained "neutrum". Any m/f nouns take the indefinite article "en", while neutral nouns take "ett". This is also the case in Danish and in Bokmål, the most common written form of Norwegian.

Where it gets complicated though, is the isolation of communities in Sweden and Norway. Many dialects in rural Sweden and Norway retains features that disappeared from the prestige language of the cities. Norwegian is even more complicated, since genetically it belongs to the West Scandinavian group of descendants from old Norse, while Danish and Swedish form an eastern group. However, since Norway was ruled by Denmark for hundreds of years, they adopted written Danish as the standard writing for Norwegian. The descendant of this Danish is called Bokmål, it is very similar to written Danish and is used by 90% of the inhabitants of Norway. The spoken language does not correspond to the written language, and is divided into three dialectal regions, the east (containing Oslo), the west and the north. Eastern Norwegian has adapted to Bokmål, and sounds very similar to Swedish, and I as a Swede could understand it perfectly without ever studying it. Almost all who speak eastern dialects write in Bokmål. In the west and north, however, the language has not adapted as much to the Danish-based Bokmål, and some pockets of dialect are more similar to Icelandic than Swedish or Danish, or completely unique. Thus in the 19th century, when Norwegian nationalism was rising, a man named Ivar Aasen went around the country to collect examples of dialects. He compiled a grammar and a lexicon that was a compromise between the many dialects of western and northern Norway. This was the base for New Norwegian, Nynorsk, a written language based on rural dialects instead of Danish. It has been refined and standardised since then, and is now used by around 10% of the inhabitants as their written language. As a compromise, it's not identical to any of the dialects, but can be used with slight variations by any speaker of western or northern Norwegian. It's also completely possible to speak a western dialect and write in Bokmål. The written and spoken Norwegian are separate.

I'll give you an example from a friend of mine who worked in a call center with me.

In bokmål, "How can we help you?" is spelled "Hvordan kan vi hjelpe dere?" and pronounced similarly in eastern dialects. My friend from Stavanger in western Norway pronounced this "Korss'n kan me helpa dokke?" and wrote it "Korleis kan me helpa dykk?" in Nynorsk. He also used three distinct genders, "ein, ei, eit" as the indefinite articles for masculine, feminine and neutral respectively, which is also a feature of Nynorsk, instead of "en, et" in Bokmål.
dubmdell (556 D)
10 Mar 12 UTC
I will give a fuller response of thanks later, but for now, that was a fascinating read. Thank you for sharing. I am quite intrigued by these developments you speak of. I am actually applying to Oslo even now, so this is a great introduction to the linguistic history.
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
10 Mar 12 UTC
What are you applying for in Oslo, and where are you from by the way? Let me know if you want to know something about Arabic. I love sharing, and the morphology of Arabic is a thing of pure beauty.

To all who want to learn languages, I have to agree with dubmdell. Learn how sounds are produced! Especially if you're trying to learn a language that is not related to one you already know. For example, if your native tongue is English, you can speak French with a horrible accent and be understood, because you can make enough of the meaningful sounds. But in Arabic, there are 28 distinct consonants and 10 of them have no equivalent in English. I had to learn to distinguish and produce a lot of sounds, and doing it by repetition takes years, if it works at all. So I took an introductory course in phonetics, and everything became a hundred times easier. It's enough to just read about it on Wikipedia, learn how sounds are produced, what happens when you move your tongue, etc., and instead of trying and trying to make that foreign sound, you can read that it's a voiced uvular plosive and get a long head start.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
10 Mar 12 UTC
I only speak English, currently...

General Ed. classes I don't want or need for my major--hello, mathematics, we meet again!--have kept me from taking a foreign language so far.

I'd like to learn German, that'd probably be at the top of my list...
Latin, too, to read the Classics in their original form...
Russian, too, seems appealing, so much great literature, but I'm not sure I want to learn another alphabet...

I know a lot of folks take French in HS and college, but I've just never seen the appeal (the age of French dominance is long-gone...and as I don't care nearly as much for French literature as I do for German pieces, and half my family emigrated from Germany/Austria at the turn of the 20th century, I'll take that over French.)

I SHOULD probably know more Spanish than I actually do, living near LA, but I know enough words and phrases to get by, I guess (and generally, in my experience, you can piece together what a person means often by non-verbal clues as well as what you are able to figure out.)

And then, after English, and alongside Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Hindi--

All important languages, but again, I don't know if I want to learn another alphabet and start from square one.

So, aside from knowing some Yiddish due to my upbringing, and a few words of German and Spanish because of my surroundings...

It's just English for me, so far (but once I pass you, math, and you lay defeated at my feet, stabbed through the heart with my #2 pencil and compass...THEN I'll learn to curse your existence in German!) ;)
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
10 Mar 12 UTC
Learning another alphabet isn't that hard at all. I learned the Arabic script in two weeks and after a month or two it felt completely comfortable, and Russian is much easier. Greek and Russian have many characters in common with the Latin alphabet.
English, Spanish, French, and a teeny bit of Cantonese. I took two years of college Japanese and have forgotten it all, including the ability to read it. If I could acquire another language, it would be Russian but I am too lazy.
livingghost1 (602 D)
10 Mar 12 UTC
I'm from Australia, so i speak fluent English. I also know fluent Arabic and some French
Boner (100 D)
10 Mar 12 UTC
I'm from Russia, and I consider my English as good. Studied German for five or six years, but haven't learned a hell - thanks to 'good' education, and my own laziness and lack of inspiration. Once, maybe, I will renew it, dunno yet. Right now I study Spanish second year, and sometimes the same shit that prevented me from learning language comes. I often blame myself for it.
Boner (100 D)
10 Mar 12 UTC
>learning language
Meaned German.
kestasjk (95 DMod(P))
10 Mar 12 UTC
I dont suppose anyone here would be interested in translating webDiplomacy? We're building support for on the fly translations right now

E-mail [email protected] if you'd be interested anyway (it won't be much fun, but could really help bring webDip to people who speak your language, and help us test the new functionality as it comes online)
redhouse1938 (429 D)
10 Mar 12 UTC
Hey kestasjk,
Yes, I can help translate the site into Dutch if you want. I'll send you an email.
Regards, redhouse
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
10 Mar 12 UTC
@Boner:

Being from Russia...

How different is the alphabet from English...would it be a difficult transition?

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70 replies
Sargmacher (0 DX)
12 Mar 12 UTC
Abortion
With the new abortion laws being discussed, what kind of limitations do we think should be enforced? Should it be, for example, legitimate to use abortion for reasons of IQ or gender? Discuss.
38 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
13 Mar 12 UTC
I Need Some Critiquing...
I know that none of you like me very much.
I also know that people who hate you are typically the best editors.
And so, I have a poem for you all to read....and I would like some constructive feedback, if such a thing exists on this site:
7 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
13 Mar 12 UTC
Couldn't Figure This Math Problem Out, Hard As I Tried, Am I A Fool?
Likely.

But I just have to know what the answer to this Stats question is from my test...the other 11 problems I went through fine, and then THIS problem I puzzled over for 45 minutes solid, until everyone had long left over half an hour ago, and I just had to punt (I TOLD YOU...I'm just atrocious at math!) :)
25 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
13 Mar 12 UTC
Need subs ASAP
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=82449#gamePanel
1 reply
Open
DipperDon (6457 D)
13 Mar 12 UTC
Gunboat wta 5 min
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/profile.php?userID=9735
0 replies
Open
Sydney City (0 DX)
12 Mar 12 UTC
Replacement needed- GREAT position
as france....
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=81291&msgCountryID=7
4 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
10 Mar 12 UTC
So...Who ELSE Is/Plans On Becoming A Soulless, Craven, Cruel Follower of...
...Political Science?
I'll be trying to double-major in English and PoliSci when I transfer this fall, and was just curious what those who are currently PoliSci majors--and even better, maybe those with PoliSci careers--think? (And a bonus question: Without cheating, from WHICH literary work do we get the infamous phrase "Kill all the lawyers?" I'd give a hint as to the author, but...do I NEED to, when *I* am making the reference?) ;)
121 replies
Open
Bitemenow10 (100 D)
12 Mar 12 UTC
thought i already posted this but i guess not....WORLDDIP
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=82920
15 point bet, 3 days per phase, public press with anon players i wanna see how interesting this gets
0 replies
Open
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