Absolutely. Severe metagamers need to cracked down upon. I think the mods really need to get tough on crime, because the low buy-in games are starting to get a polluted atmosphere.

Not all meta-gaming need be bannable, but if there is unsportsmanlike or malicious intent then its just as bad as multi-accounting. Thus the penalty should fit the crime.

disagree

Thanks for contributing alamothe

Agreed on not all meta is the same. I was referring to metagaming outside the permissible. Checking stats and hitting the best record/high score players are fine and to be expected, but pregame unbreakable alliances are as bad as multi-accounts in that they destroy the game.

i don't think you can prove pregame unbreakable alliances

If they admit it, you can.

But we have an admission of one. That should be bannable. sniffy admitted to doing it in the thread on pregame alliances.

And proof in a civil court is considered merely by a preponderance of evidence. Look at the suspects' games and see if they always ally and never stab.

Ha Draugnar you are a tool :) Metagaming cannot be a bannable offense because technically I am allowed to play with whoever I want in the game and choose to do whatever I want with them. No one can tell me what I can and can not do as long as I am not breaking the rules. Like I said before I no longer metagame so get off my back please and thank you.

I agree with Alamothe.

> If they admit it, you can.

You can't. Saying anything in a game is a part of diplomacy and isn't necessarily true.

But does that apply on the forum? To an email to a mod?

You guys are just making my day more enjoyable :) really u are. Being the badass of Diplomacy is quite entertaining. BUT like I said before I AM DONE metagaming. Can you please just leave me alone about it?

Another reason metagaming should be banned is that it is a good cover for Multi-ing. You just write a lot of chat between your 2 accounts and when anyone accuses you of multi you admit to meta. If meta is also banned then that won't work.

Then many people would be wrongfully banned because they couldn't provide good enough evidence that they were not metagaming. As soon as you guys re-do your little rulebook thing I will change my mind about metagaming. Until then what I did is not wrong.

Banning is a bit steep, I think. With new mod powers coming in, it is possible to make playing in this way undesirable without going to that length.

I'm turning blue holding my breath waiting for the new mod powers... <grin>

ME TOO =D

So point penalties are going through?

I would have thought meta-gaming is very hard to police, short of an actual confession. Especially since it's not clear at what point meta-gaming becomes serious enough for punishment.

Point penalties is what the new mod powers are? HA. I don't play for points :)

Well, you wont be *able* to play without them ;)
ps - please reply to my email!

Edit: It bounced from the email - please will you email me

U sent me an email? Sorry I didnt know :P My bad.

Yes, it's waiting for your response (in reply to your email)

I absolutely agree that certain forms of metagaming should be prohibited and do as much damage as multi accounting. The real difficulty in my mind is that it's very difficult to ascertain a meta for sure, unless perhaps they directly admit it, and I don't want to ban innocent players who have been falsely accused.

I think the community deals with metagamers harshly enough for now. The best solution in my mind is to get them to reform. Not too many are so unreasonable that they feel they absolutely must metagame.

"Another reason metagaming should be banned is that it is a good cover for Multi-ing. You just write a lot of chat between your 2 accounts and when anyone accuses you of multi you admit to meta. If meta is also banned then that won't work."

That will have very limited success. I can assure you that it's been tried before, but if the meta story isn't backed up by the data and information that mods have behind the scenes it becomes quite clear that they're lying. At this point I often just ban all their accounts, when usually I let them keep one to continue playing. .

@1 800 sniffy-

badass of diplomacy? wow, talk about being a tool...

There is no way that, with the wording of the current FAQ, the mods would be justified in banning anyone for meta-gaming, even if it is proved and they admit it. To remind you all, the FAQ reads as follows:

"Meta-gaming is usually frowned on, but is acceptable in some cases and not seen as being as bad as multi-accounting."

So it is made very clear in the FAQ that metagaming is NOT against the rules of this site. While it is poor form, or essentially bad manners in some cases, if it does not break the rules, it cannot be a banning offence.

If the guys in charge of the site decide to change the rules and the FAQ, and make this change VERY clear to existing and new players, then after a few weeks of letting people get used to the new rules, it might be legitimate to ban metagamers, but not until then.

Maybe clearing up in which cases metagaming is acceptable and when they are not would help? Giving a few examples for both would be good.

The FAQ defines "A meta-gamer is someone in more than one game who lets one of his games influence how he plays in another one."

Beyond learning from mistakes I cannot think of any situation where that is acceptable so tighten up the FAQ "Meta-gaming is ALWAYS frowned on". Sadly, proof is impossible unless self-confessed or evident from some careless in-game messages. If it is clear, then BAN both players on the grounds that either may have benefited from cooperation earlier in the game.