Problem with public housing is the fear of free loaders. If I'm in a shotty apartment anyway, or I'm renting why not sell it/kick myself out and get a free apartment in the process?

I'll save a good $10,000 a year, which even as a middle class is a significant amount.

Surely market would adapt though? Free houses become shittier, expensive houses become cheaper...

Could work. Not too thought out though.

@Fasces I'm generally sceptical of claims such as yours because (a) people feel shame, and (b) some programs might be means tested.

@YJ - the problem with the the prison system is that it's run largely for profit. This results in both blatant corruption, and also extensive lobbying for laws such as 3 strikes which fuel a large prison population (and thus make a lot of money for the corporations running them). Hence, it's not really in the interest of politicians to spend money on education to keep them out of prison, as they will then face attacks about their levels of public spending whilst simultaneously losing a huge amount of money for their re-election campaigns.

Private facilities hold just about 10% of the total number of people in correctional facilities. Approximately 210,000 inmates are held in private facilities with the remaining 1,800,000 plus held in public ones. Mendax's claim that it is "largely run for profit" is demonstrably false when the numbers are reviewed. 10% privatization does not a "for profit" industry make.

What makes anyone think that a government run prison systemis free from corruption? lol What idiocy! Government run prisons systems are run by....wpublic (government) UNIONS...and what does a public (government) employee union love more than anything else? that's right...to keep their jobs at all costs!

So...let's look at who would be in favor of keeping prisons full? Might it be...oh...I don't know...the prison unions??!!??! Might not THEY, who are generally working hand-in-hand with the politicians (you give me a pay raise, our union will support your candidacy...) have a vested interest in seeing a political structure and legal system in place that will keep the prisons full?

lol Good lord, the morons who spend their life trying to paint private industry as the bastion of all that is evil are so tiresome, particularly in that they are so, so often so, so far from the truth...

It appears that on this the USA is actually less corporate than England, where I live. I will admit that I had made the assumption that the opposite would be true (it normally is).

Who has a vested interest in seeing the cost of keeping a prisoner incarcerated HIGH? Under a Government run prison system, in which prisons and all the necessary supporting agencies (food, for example) are union affiliated, you have a vested interest in high prices to keep those union members overpaid and happy so they can keep voting in the chaps that will keep the prisons full and high-dollar contracts in place.

Mendax - What "normally is true" in the US? Clarify that (no doubt) totaly erroneous statement for us, please. Examples.

The USA has a tendency to be more corporate than Europe generally, and the UK specifically.

Example: Healthcare.

Apart from health care, where is the US more corporate? Our government has its fingers stretched farther than you imagine, I think.

Ok, another example: Political funding.

Perhaps he was referring to the quality of healthcare the average person receives in the US (not waiting in line for our free doctors only to get told the quota is full for this month but they can see you six months from now). Or perhaps he meant just how much technology comes out of the US (Intel, Microsoft, Apple, Google, General Electric Northrop Grumman, need I go on?). Or maybe it was the sheer volume of artists and movie studios (the British invasion is dead mate and the only real stuff coming out of the UK entertainment wise is 007 movies, Doctor Who, Orphan Black, and a few other series that I must bow my hat to).

What would incentivize a privately run prison system to work to keep inmates out of jail? Would they not also be motivated primarily by profits (which presumably are greater with more inmates?) just like the current government-run system?

Political Funding? We have laws against massive corporate conations now. Have for some time. We have gone through campaign finance reform and come out the other side with a much more workable system than the UK has.

@y2k - Private prisons don't want more inmates if they are high cost inmates over here. They only want the low security docile types who can make them money. Putting up ultramax prisons to house the worst offenders is something our private security companies don't want to do as they can be held liable for the wrong doings that result should an inmate escape.

I was actually referring to the simple fact that your healthcare is mostly private, whereas ours is almost entirely public. I made absolutely no comment on the quality of healthcare provided, because that was irrelevant to my point. I also make absolutely no comment about the tech sector, or entertainment, because again there are nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I congratulate your unerring ability to go off-topic in order to beat your chest about how incredible you believe the USA to be. However, this is completely irrelevant to the point I was making, so I would appreciate it if you would desist from this behaviour.

I was typing that when you clarified your statement. So off topic only because topic hadn't been targeted yet.

The sum total of donations to UK political parties is approximately £40m per year. This is nothing compared to the USA.

<good grief> what makes any of you think that you can set up some magical system that will keep people out of prison? The fucking prisons are there to PUNISH PEOPLE THAT BREAK THE LAW.

The prison doesn't put a prisoner in the system. Fuck, pass a law, people break it and they go to prison, regardless of who is fucking running it!

At least with a private system you have an incentive to MINIMIZE COST to the tax payer, because they will attempt to trim the fat from the system to maximize profit.

A government run system a **zero** incentive to do *anything*, good, bad or indifferent. Under a government run system, you can perform a poorly as you want, waste money, etc and still you will get your paycheck, and probably a bigger budget the next year, regardless of performance.

Not so with a competitive private market.

And you would actually be surprised how much of our healthcare is corporate. Most hospitals are not for profit organizations. They are corporate in that government doesn't run them, but they aren't profit driven. It's the health *insurance* industry that is profit driven and those are two very different beasts (like saying the auto industry and the auto insurance industry).

Ok so they would want the non-violent criminals to hang around in jail and work to limit the amount of dangerous criminals under maximum security? That doesn't sound good. Basically I'm having a hard time getting to a point where I could trust private corporations to handle prisons.

I wonder if any of your left-wing nutbags even has the slightest clue how competitive private markets work.

Did any of you ever play sports? If you pretty much *sucked* at a sport, did you play the game, or sit on the bench?

Well in a compeitive private market - say to run prison systems - if you fail to perform up to security standards, cost limits, etc, then the next time the contract comes up you and all your shitty employees are looking for a new job and the next private company wins the bid and does their best, until you finally have the best running the system.

Under government run, you have absolutely zero expectation of the best of anything.

@krellin: I get the cost thing, but I'm still not there on how private prisons would actually work without at least some serious regulations in place. My understanding is that the court passes down sentences and prisons have jurisdiction about reducing the sentence due to behavior in jail and other factors, so prisons do have a direct say in how long criminals stay there along with the actual courts.

The fact that the USA has a much higher rate of prisoners per capita than anywhere else suggests that something strange is going on over there that isn't happening elsewhere, so screaming that there's nothing to see here, that it doesn't matter who's running it etc. really doesn't cut it.

But the UK only has 60 million people. We have 6 times that population. And the real key is a candidate cannot receive more than $5,000 from any one PAC or $2,500 from any individual.

y2k -" I'm having a hard time getting to a point where I could trust private corporations to handle prisons. "

that's because you are a moron, and don't have a *clue* what privatization means, other than whatever vile bullshit has been pumped into your skull by your radical socialist teachers.

You actually think a privately run system would seek to fail and harm society? If they do, THEY LOSE THE FUCKING CONTRACT AND DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY. You have a *better* chance of a good running system if someone's job and profit is actually on the line, as opposed to a government run system with union's protecting the workers who can get away with anything without fear of losing their job, as long as they keep stroking the politicians signing their contracts with political donations.

@y2k <sigh..> Seriously there are already regulations in place for prisoners, how they are cared for, etc. How woudl it be any different with a privately run prison? Good lord, prisons have to follow laws!

I think your problem is you and your silly pals watched idiotic Hollywood movies where the "evil private corporations" run prisons and think it's true.

I pity you and how detached from reality you are.

@y2k - No, they don't do maximum security here. Only 1 in 10 prisoners is privately housed. Jails do not hold convicted felons or even those convicted of misdemeanors where the incarceration period exceeds a certain amount of time. Jails are temporary housing *only*. We have state and federal penitentiaries (prisons) run by the government (or in a few cases, private companies) for the longer term incarceration and the private facilities only accept minimum or medium security. High, max, and ultramax all go to federal or state owned and operated prisons, not jails. Please understand the difference. Because it is a big one.

For instance, where I live, you have jails in Hamilton and Butler counties but the nearest prisons are Lebanon and Warren County as they have the land around them and are built to house the worst violent offenders.