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obiwanobiwan (248 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Santa and Jesus are WHITE GODDAMNIT, says Megyn Kelly
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/fox-news-host-megyn-kelly-says-jesus-and-santa-are-white-193322244.html
1. We'll leave Jesus being a "historical figure" alone here, that's up in the air (not even saying I don't think he might've been, just saying.)
2. ...Does it REALLY matter if people want a Black Santa? Really?
3. You're gonna tell me a Jew in the Middle East 2,000 years ago had pearly-white skin? O.o Um...no.
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obiwanobiwan (248 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Now, granted I'm a Jew and this is your holiday, not mine, dear Christian Webdippers, but let me ask...

Does it matter if folks want a Black Santa?

If we can have a Black Hamlet, why not a Black Santa?

There ARE some fictional characters you just can't change the race/religion of--you could change "Huckleberry Finn" or "Othello" to make Othello or Jim the Slave white, and on a similar note, given how he's called "Jew" more than his actual name, you couldn't do a version of "The Merchant of Venice" with a Christian Shylock-but in large part...yeah, you can change plenty of character's race...

Especially one as silly and fun as Santa Claus.

(SantaClausowitz, however, is different...you don't wanna get on his Naughty List...so I know I'm getting coal this Christmas!)

But really--does it matter? I get that he originally and traditionally IS white...but if it makes Black or Hispanic or Asian kids happy...does it matter? Does it really offend people...other than people like Megyn Kelly who have an erroneous view of history...

Speaking of which--

Jesus was not pearly-white skinned. Period.

Again, no way, no how, in Ancient Judea, 2,000 years ago, was Jesus what we would call today "white."

If you want to argue he's become a "white character" in Christian art and literature...sure. That's fair to say. But then you're admitting you're basing your image of him off of a fictional, fabricated, artistic vision of a CHARACTER...and not a real person and not according to the facts and just logic.

A pearly-white Jesus in Ancient Judea makes about as much sense as Ancient Jews coming to America to become the Native Americans...namely, NONE (if anyone here's a Mormon, sorry, but...yeah...no. Did not happen. Which is fine--meant my Armenian friend and I could take American Indian Lit this semester and always go "NOT *OUR* FAULT!" 'cause Russians and Turks were chasing her people one way and my ancestors the other way!) ;)

But yeah...Jesus? Not a whitey-white guy.
Octavious (2701 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
(+2)
Pah, they'll be saing Moses was an African next!
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
St. Nicholas was Greek. Does that count as white?
President Eden (2750 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
(+2)
Wouldn't he be? Maybe not Nordic/Irish pale, probably a Mediterranean tan like the rest of the ethnic groups indigenous to that area, but why wouldn't the Palestine of antiquity (specifically before the arrival of the Arabs) have white people in it?

And hell, wouldn't Arabs be considered white in our own legal definition anyway? The census race categories are white, black, [East] Asian, Native American and Pacific Islander. Where would you put an Arab? Of those descriptions (and understanding Asian to mean East Asian, i.e. Japanese, Chinese, Korean), why wouldn't they be white?

also inb4thetome
President Eden (2750 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
(+3)
Son of a bitch looks like I wasn't inb4thetome after all. Shame on my house
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
And Sinterklaas/Father Christmas/Grandfather Frost has his origins in Nordic Europe. Pretty sure he's white. Though he does have a black buddy, Zwarte Piet.
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
What PE said about Jesus.
President Eden (2750 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
(+2)
Anyway, did you even fucking watch the segment? Kelly and co. treated the piece in question very fairly. You'd have to be trying to manufacture offense here, which I guess is par for the course.
Octavious (2701 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Snow White was orginially Ethiopian, from Ras Dashen. Her name was intended to be ironic, much like Little John from the Robin Hood legend. Fact.
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
(+2)
This is a complete non-issue.
Draugnar (0 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Well, Santa is definitely white when you look at his origins. But yeah, Jesus was a swarthy olive skinned dude. Look at a Israeli Jew and that is most likely what Jesus' skin looked like.
Draugnar (0 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
The really bad thing is, this year Macy's (I think it was MAcy's - heard it on NPR this morning) is having *two* Santa's, one white and one black. WTF?
orathaic (1009 D(B))
13 Dec 13 UTC
Does that count as copyright infringement? Or does the creative aspect of making Santa black make for a new IP? I'm not sure if it is different enough, or if we need copyright to incentivise creativity... Oh sorry are we talking about a world of characters without copyright? When did Disney let that happen??
Draugnar (0 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Coke owns the copyright on Santa as he appears in 'Murica.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
13 Dec 13 UTC
I'm not sure how much truth there is to that claim, i was wrong about it recently...
krellin (80 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
Let's see what happens if we dig up some lovable character from Black cultural mythology...say Kwanza Krack Kenny ...and tell all the black kids that Kwanza Krack Kenny is actually a white dude. Then we'll see how racially color-blind all the outraged people are.

It's not an issue, other than the fact that the usual race-baiters are trying to make an issue out of nothing by attacking cultural tradition.

If we are truly a color blind society, shouldn't the little non-white kids be just as happy with White Santa as anything else? What difference does it make? After all, all the little non-white kids look to Noble White Liberals for all their handouts, right, and that's OK?

<...throws bombs...strolls casually away...>
Draugnar (0 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
It was a joke, ora. The red suit predates Coke, but "the big guy" we envision today is Coke's invention. In fact, Santa from "T'was the Night Before Christmas" was "a right jolly old elf". He was basically the top dog of the elves at the North Pole, but still one of them.

"When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a miniature sleigh, and eight tinny reindeer.

With a little old driver, so lively and quick,
I knew in a moment it must be St Nick."

So, a little dude in a miniature sleigh pulled by tiny reindeer. Not some really big dude.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.
The stockings were hung by the chimney with care,
In hopes that St Nicholas soon would be there.

The children were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of sugar-plums danced in their heads.
And mamma in her ‘kerchief, and I in my cap,
Had just settled our brains for a long winter’s nap.

When out on the lawn there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
Away to the window I flew like a flash,
Tore open the shutters and threw up the sash.

The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow
Gave the lustre of mid-day to objects below.
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a miniature sleigh, and eight tinny reindeer.

With a little old driver, so lively and quick,
I knew in a moment it must be St Nick.
More rapid than eagles his coursers they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name!

"Now Dasher! now, Dancer! now, Prancer and Vixen!
On, Comet! On, Cupid! on, on Donner and Blitzen!
To the top of the porch! to the top of the wall!
Now dash away! Dash away! Dash away all!"

As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly,
When they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky.
So up to the house-top the coursers they flew,
With the sleigh full of Toys, and St Nicholas too.

And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof
The prancing and pawing of each little hoof.
As I drew in my head, and was turning around,
Down the chimney St Nicholas came with a bound.

He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot,
And his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot.
A bundle of Toys he had flung on his back,
And he looked like a peddler, just opening his pack.

His eyes-how they twinkled! his dimples how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the beard of his chin was as white as the snow.

The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,
And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath.
He had a broad face and a little round belly,
That shook when he laughed, like a bowlful of jelly!

He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,
And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself!
A wink of his eye and a twist of his head,
Soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread.

He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
And filled all the stockings, then turned with a jerk.
And laying his finger aside of his nose,
And giving a nod, up the chimney he rose!

He sprang to his sleigh, to his team gave a whistle,
And away they all flew like the down of a thistle.
But I heard him exclaim, ‘ere he drove out of sight,
"Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good-night!"

(Moore, C.C., 1822, 'Twas the night before Christmas'. Retrieved from: http://www.carols.org.uk/twas_the_night_before_christmas.htm)
grking (100 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
@Draug: Macy's has a bunch of Santas, and usually two or three are black (at least this is what I've heard from David Sedaris's "Santaland Diaries").
Draugnar (0 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
I meant in the same store at the same time.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
13 Dec 13 UTC
Yes, but there seems to have been a move towards the standard big, jolly, red character (which coke later reinforced) in the 20s see: www.metnews.com/articles/2005/reminiscing122205.htm

Which has two sources pre-dating the 1931 coke adverts...
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
"And hell, wouldn't Arabs be considered white in our own legal definition anyway? The census race categories are white, black, [East] Asian, Native American and Pacific Islander. Where would you put an Arab? Of those descriptions (and understanding Asian to mean East Asian, i.e. Japanese, Chinese, Korean), why wouldn't they be white?"

...Because Arab still =/= white?

I'd be tempted to say the closest thing on that list (understanding as you said that Asian = East Asia and not the Middle East) would be "black" given the dark skin tone some Arabs have, but even that doesn't really fit at all...

Simply put--the census is (shocker!) out of date and really needs to update (and I notice "Latino/Hispanic" isn't a choice...and given I live in a state where in many places it's 50/50 white and Latino...yeah...isn't that on there? It has to be...?)

But "Arab/Middle Eastern" should be its own category.

"Anyway, did you even fucking watch the segment? Kelly and co. treated the piece in question very fairly. You'd have to be trying to manufacture offense here, which I guess is par for the course."

1. If you mean the part I linked, yes.

2. I'm not manufacturing outrage, but laughing at the idiocy of the "Santa Must Be White or ELSE" sentiment there as well as the, well, the "Jesus was white" when, well, no Jesus was anything BUT white...either Middle Eastern-Jew or olive-skinned, but definitely not "white" as we know and think of it today.

3. Putin manufactures outrage, I manufacture excuses to slip Shakespeare (definitely a whitey!) into conversations.

4. I'm not even arguing about her treating the segment fairly or unfairly...again, I'm laughing at what I perceive to be the idiocy of her stance, NOT perceived unfairness on her part. She's perfectly within her rights to say what she said, and it didn't seem as if she did a Bill O'Reilly and dominated the topic unfairly or started to brow-beat anyone...I just think her answer is on par with saying "Columbus discovered the world was round!" in terms of factual accuracy and how seriously I'd take her...namely--not very seriously at all.

"The really bad thing is, this year Macy's (I think it was MAcy's - heard it on NPR this morning) is having *two* Santa's, one white and one black. WTF?"

I agree...that's just...just no...

Come on--white kids can handle a black Santa and black kids can handle a white Santa, right? As long as he gives them toys or candy and isn't a creeper...

Hell, give us a Jewish Santa--at least then we'd have an explanation for why he's OK working on Jesus' Very Merry Un-Birthday. ;)
Draugnar (0 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Interesting. Thanks ora. I find advertising history and the evolution of fictional characters fascinating. That's like we all have an image of Scrooge, but Dickens never really gives a good description of his overall physical appearance. Many of the other characters he does, but not ol' Ebeneezer.
hecks (164 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
The museum I work at did a whole exhibit on the history of Santa Claus a few years ago. While the German sources show him as a tiny elf, early English sources of Father Christmas show him as tall, very thin, and ethereal... sort of like Father Time.
Draugnar (0 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
Latino/Hispanic is a culture, not a race, according to the US Census Bureau. Because Mexican Latinos were Spanish mixed with natives of the region and there has been a major blending of the two so much that the media started calling Zimmerman a "white Hispanic" after initially calling him "white" if you will recall.
Draugnar (0 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
@Hecks - Yeah, I've seen him often appearing similar to Christmas Past and wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't some of the inspiration for Dickens choice for Past. And I bet Dickens was partially the inspiration for Coke doing the big guy as Present was always a larger than life big guy with the laugh in Dickens story. Although I'm more fond of tall dark and scary Future. He who resembles Thanatos in many ways.
Draugnar (0 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
And Hecks, you have to have the coolest job. If I weren't addicted to money and I were looking to get out of software development, I would so want to work in a museum.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
"Latino/Hispanic is a culture, not a race, according to the US Census Bureau."

I do see "White (Not Hispanic" and "White Hispanic" choices, so they do have that dichotomy...

Though frankly, that seems rather arbitrary--

I mean, what's "white blood" but English blood mixed with Scottish blood, or French with Italian, or Russian and Polish (that'd be interesting, haha) and so on...

What makes Spanish + French = White race but Spanish + Native = Latino as a culture and not a race, especially after a few hundred years?
krellin (80 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Free Kwanza Krack Kenny! Free Kwanza Krack Kenny! The Brother's have got 'im oppressed!
krellin (80 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
Did we mention that the Easter Bunny really isn't a rabbit at all, but is a wolverine?

And St Patrick's Day leprechauns are really Islamic dwarfs.
Draugnar (0 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
@Obi - Why don't you go ask the folks at the US Census Bureau?

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110 replies
kramerkov18 (1570 D)
23 Aug 13 UTC
Daily Quote:
This is now the official thread for daily quotes. I missed yesterday so I will start off with two. Fill free to post any quote you think deserves attention, but please try and make them meaningful.
227 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
28 Nov 13 UTC
21 million Bitcoins
There are currently just over 12m Bitcoins in circulation. The number of Bitcoins allowed to exist is capped at 21m Bitcoins - once the 21 millionth Bitcoin has been mined, no new Bitcoins will be created.

What will happen when the 21m Bitcoin mark is reached?
70 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Obama wins liar of the year!
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/12/13/250694372/obamas-you-can-keep-it-promise-is-lie-of-the-year
9 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Jang Song-thaek
Discuss
30 replies
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RedSteamAge (100 D)
14 Dec 13 UTC
Join my game, and fast
It's called For the win, live. Join, divide and conquer
1 reply
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
13 Dec 13 UTC
Libraries > Pie, Baseball
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/12/americans-still-care-about-their-public-libraries/282250/
6 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
12 Dec 13 UTC
What a pain in the arse.......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25344219
Gay Aussies getting married ..... not in their own country.
I don't get the opposition to gay people getting married ..... maybe some smart arse on the forum can explain why gay marriage is bad for society !!
119 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
14 Dec 13 UTC
Time Stamp
A time stamp seems like a bit of a weird thing to include standard in a diplomacy game. For the older members, has it always been here? Was there a reasoning behind its implementation?
1 reply
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Dec 13 UTC
Ethan Couch
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/11/us/texas-teen-dwi-wreck/
25 replies
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erik8asandwich (298 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Does the NSA monitor WedDip forum posts?
...with Krellin on posting here all the time it seems plausible to say the least.
5 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
11 Dec 13 UTC
Pope Francis = Person of the Year
All of TIME Magazine's 132 subscribers will be invariably conflicted over this one I suppose... but hey, it wasn't Bashar Assad or Ted Cruz - or, Pope Francis forbid, Miley Cyrus!
40 replies
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Al Swearengen (0 DX)
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
Call for Players - Sandgoose Second Annual
as per below, Gentlemen
13 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
11 Dec 13 UTC
You'll never guess what my Biology teacher teached me...
Some not-too-fast girl thought there's oxygen in your urine.
The teacher explained: "there are no bubbles coming out of your wheenie!!" or something like that, roughly translated. She's hilarious.
In all honesty that was a small walk down memory lane, but anyway :)
43 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
12 Dec 13 UTC
Live Aid
We all understand Bon Jovi was undermining most local African authorities, right? Should he have done it 'by the book' instead? Surely the money could have been spent more efficiently, right?
What's efficient charity? Discuss.
25 replies
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stiffmaster89 (193 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Search for experts
Are you a good player? Come to "professional league". Nothing for beginner
8 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
03 Dec 13 UTC
(+4)
Abolish the TSA
This editorial was in USA Today (!) and makes a pretty good case - the TSA has never actually caught a terrorist, its incentives do not line up with those of travelers, and the type of terrorism it was designed to deter doesn't actually happen anymore.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/12/02/tsa-department-homeland-security-patriot-act-column/3796127/
125 replies
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virtuslex (483 D(S))
11 Dec 13 UTC
Manners in Live Games
Spr 01 NMR ==> draw/cancel/end game.
26 replies
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Skittles (1014 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
ATTN: Other States in the Union
FROM: Florida
19 replies
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grking (100 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
Inheritance Tax
I an inheritance tax (on sums larger than a certain amount, leaving a small sum to the heirs), keeps the capitalistic system going, levels the economic playing field somewhat, and requires the would-be dependents to go out and work. Furthermore, one who didn't want to pay in the form of taxes could give to the community through charitable donations. This system was supported by Andrew Carnegie in his "Gospel of Wealth", what arguments could be raised against it?
127 replies
Open
Randomizer (722 D)
12 Dec 13 UTC
I wish I was this rich if I ever was in trouble
http://www.insideedition.com/headlines/7481-rich-teen-avoids-prison-for-fatal-dui-with-affluenza-defense

The son of rich Dallas parents got two years probation at a ultra rich rehab camp after killing 4 people and injured others when he drove at 70 mph into the group helping a motorist change a tire. The kid claimed he couldn't tell right from wrong because his parents bought him everything including apparently the judge.
1 reply
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bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Dec 13 UTC
When Athletes Fuck Up On Live TV
http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2013/december/amir-williams-remembers-he-s-on-live-tv-just-in-time.html

Self-explanatory.
0 replies
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MitchellCurtiss (164 D)
10 Dec 13 UTC
Ducks
Comment with any feelings or stories about ducks you may have.
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hecks (164 D)
12 Dec 13 UTC
MLB Cracks Down on Home Plate Collisions
http://espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove13/story/_/id/10121849/mlb-intends-ban-home-plate-collisions-2015

What do people think about this? Are players getting soft, or is it about time?
8 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
12 Dec 13 UTC
Global Cooling: A mere 40 Years Ago...
Remember when the Scientific Consence, including NASA, NCAR and other well respected groups of scientists were freaking out about the dramatic weather caused by the new ice age. Ahhhh...good times, good times...
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/1970s-ice-age-scare/
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/12/12/1974-ncar-called-global-cooling-the-new-norm-and-blamed-climate-disasters-on-it/
8 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
08 Dec 13 UTC
How is the Syrian civil war going to end?
Taking thoughts.
59 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
10 Dec 13 UTC
simple question
Feet in southarabia moves to egipt
Feet in egipt moves to northarabia
Fleet iraq supports move to northarabia
is it possible?
5 replies
Open
Skittles (1014 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
We need more of a late-night crowd
It's next to impossible to get a live game going around midnight, and even the forums tend to be pretty dead.
11 replies
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2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
10 Dec 13 UTC
Best Music of 2013
What are your favorite albums? Songs? Videos that aren't Blurred Lines?
39 replies
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Feeniks (694 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
Gunboat Games
What is the best way to improve at gunboat games? I've been told several times that I am a worthless waste of space. And I would like to become a waste of space with a minuscule bit of worth. How can I bridge the gap? I tend to do better when I can manipulate people into what I want them to do.
26 replies
Open
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