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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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obiwanobiwan (248 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Santa and Jesus are WHITE GODDAMNIT, says Megyn Kelly
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/fox-news-host-megyn-kelly-says-jesus-and-santa-are-white-193322244.html
1. We'll leave Jesus being a "historical figure" alone here, that's up in the air (not even saying I don't think he might've been, just saying.)
2. ...Does it REALLY matter if people want a Black Santa? Really?
3. You're gonna tell me a Jew in the Middle East 2,000 years ago had pearly-white skin? O.o Um...no.
110 replies
Open
kramerkov18 (1570 D)
23 Aug 13 UTC
Daily Quote:
This is now the official thread for daily quotes. I missed yesterday so I will start off with two. Fill free to post any quote you think deserves attention, but please try and make them meaningful.
227 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
28 Nov 13 UTC
21 million Bitcoins
There are currently just over 12m Bitcoins in circulation. The number of Bitcoins allowed to exist is capped at 21m Bitcoins - once the 21 millionth Bitcoin has been mined, no new Bitcoins will be created.

What will happen when the 21m Bitcoin mark is reached?
70 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Obama wins liar of the year!
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/12/13/250694372/obamas-you-can-keep-it-promise-is-lie-of-the-year
9 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Jang Song-thaek
Discuss
30 replies
Open
RedSteamAge (100 D)
14 Dec 13 UTC
Join my game, and fast
It's called For the win, live. Join, divide and conquer
1 reply
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
13 Dec 13 UTC
Libraries > Pie, Baseball
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/12/americans-still-care-about-their-public-libraries/282250/
6 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
12 Dec 13 UTC
What a pain in the arse.......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25344219
Gay Aussies getting married ..... not in their own country.
I don't get the opposition to gay people getting married ..... maybe some smart arse on the forum can explain why gay marriage is bad for society !!
119 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
14 Dec 13 UTC
Time Stamp
A time stamp seems like a bit of a weird thing to include standard in a diplomacy game. For the older members, has it always been here? Was there a reasoning behind its implementation?
1 reply
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Dec 13 UTC
Ethan Couch
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/11/us/texas-teen-dwi-wreck/
25 replies
Open
erik8asandwich (298 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Does the NSA monitor WedDip forum posts?
...with Krellin on posting here all the time it seems plausible to say the least.
5 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
11 Dec 13 UTC
Pope Francis = Person of the Year
All of TIME Magazine's 132 subscribers will be invariably conflicted over this one I suppose... but hey, it wasn't Bashar Assad or Ted Cruz - or, Pope Francis forbid, Miley Cyrus!
40 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
Call for Players - Sandgoose Second Annual
as per below, Gentlemen
13 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
11 Dec 13 UTC
You'll never guess what my Biology teacher teached me...
Some not-too-fast girl thought there's oxygen in your urine.
The teacher explained: "there are no bubbles coming out of your wheenie!!" or something like that, roughly translated. She's hilarious.
In all honesty that was a small walk down memory lane, but anyway :)
43 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
12 Dec 13 UTC
Live Aid
We all understand Bon Jovi was undermining most local African authorities, right? Should he have done it 'by the book' instead? Surely the money could have been spent more efficiently, right?
What's efficient charity? Discuss.
25 replies
Open
stiffmaster89 (193 D)
13 Dec 13 UTC
Search for experts
Are you a good player? Come to "professional league". Nothing for beginner
8 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
03 Dec 13 UTC
(+4)
Abolish the TSA
This editorial was in USA Today (!) and makes a pretty good case - the TSA has never actually caught a terrorist, its incentives do not line up with those of travelers, and the type of terrorism it was designed to deter doesn't actually happen anymore.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/12/02/tsa-department-homeland-security-patriot-act-column/3796127/
125 replies
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virtuslex (483 D(S))
11 Dec 13 UTC
Manners in Live Games
Spr 01 NMR ==> draw/cancel/end game.
26 replies
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Skittles (1014 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
ATTN: Other States in the Union
FROM: Florida
19 replies
Open
grking (100 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
Inheritance Tax
I an inheritance tax (on sums larger than a certain amount, leaving a small sum to the heirs), keeps the capitalistic system going, levels the economic playing field somewhat, and requires the would-be dependents to go out and work. Furthermore, one who didn't want to pay in the form of taxes could give to the community through charitable donations. This system was supported by Andrew Carnegie in his "Gospel of Wealth", what arguments could be raised against it?
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grking (100 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
*the first "I" should have been deleted
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
11 Dec 13 UTC
I believe the US has one already but I don't know specifically what it is/entails.
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+4)
If I die and I have a fortune, I would want my children to get the money, but maybe not all of it. But that decision should be mine, not the government's. I don't think there should be an inheritance tax (especially in cases where the money is non-renewable, e.g. inheriting a bank account, not a business).
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+3)
The Inheritance tax is in place to prevent dynastic wealth. Having an entrenched wealthy class who do nothing to contribute to the economy and just sit on money earned by their parents or grandparents is not an equitable or efficient solution. Since those are the only two objectives any economic policy should go for, then an inheritance tax is needed in order to encourage people to keep working and innovating and contributing to the economy. To spend money rather than sit on it.

@bo - It's called an estate tax. I believe its 50% of anything over $5 million
Draugnar (0 DX)
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+4)
Inheritance taxes are essentially double taxation. The estate already paid taxes on that money. What gives the government the right to tax it again?
BrownPaperTiger (508 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+3)
I say "f*ck the gummint"
I've paid tax on it when I earned it, paid capital gains tax (don't get me started on that one...) on my gains, paid money to get advice on wise investments, got screwed on stamp duty and every other form of nickel-and-dime tax/duty/fee, depending on the jurisdiction.
Why the hell should the government get ANOTHER slice of it? And if you're interested in levelling the field, find some other way apart from ANOTHER DAMNED TAX.
/rant
Wait, there's an inheritance tax in addition to the estate tax?
Sadly Draugnar, the legislature can give the Government the "right". At least on paper.
@BrownPaperTiger - can you suggest some other way?
Sure.
Educate the masses preferentially would be my first suggestion.
Any other method that gives in response to under-privilege rather than takes away from (perceived?) over-privilege
The federal estate tax used to only kick in at like $1.2M per individual. IIRC a year or two ago, it was increased to $5.25M. That means that for the vast majority of Americans, it should be a non-issue.

There additionally is a potential state estate tax (called inheritance tax in some states). In California (where I live), it's $5M.

Basically, this is an old issue that today practically is a non-issue.
Skittles (1014 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
What Draug said. The money has already been taxed, and should not be taxed again. Whether the legislature has the right to do that or not is irrelevant; it shouldn't be allowed.

I can find some arguments against the principle of preventing dynastic wealth, and forcing offspring to work. Jobs are already scarce enough as it is. Wouldn't removing some of the potential workforce free up jobs for those without the benefit of a large inheritance, and increase the overall quality of life for Americans as a whole?

The argument for this seems to be a rather idealistic one: Children should have to work, regardless of their parents' success. If I ever would be fortunate to become wealthy, I would not give my children a free ride through life, but shouldn't that be MY decision, not the government's?
BrownPaperTiger (508 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
Its still double-tax. And its still theft.
We do not have any such tax in NSW, not sure about other states of Aus.
And then you've got all the issues around what its levied on...total assets? free cash?

Think of the can of worms involved in forcing someone to sell or split up a business due to death in the family. Might well put people out of work. Its not hard to imagine.
Roger that, Skittles.
grking (100 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
Interesting to hear the other side of the argument, b/c the only argument I've ever heard before against this "death tax" was the from sensationalist right-wing portion of the media, saying it was the gummint's plot to rob everyone blind.
(concerning the media statement: yes, there is also the sensationalist left-wing media, I'm not trying to blast them any more than I'd blast the sensationalist left-wing media).
spyman (424 D(G))
11 Dec 13 UTC
Australia used to have death taxes (a state tax) until the 1970s (I believe) but then the government in Queensland had the bright idea of abolishing the tax as a way of encouraging rich people to move to and invest in Queensland - to the detriment of the other states. Ultimately this led to all the other states abolishing the tax.
Gunfighter06 (224 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
Inheritance tax = legalized grave robbery
grking (100 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
^ Now there's the argument I'd been hearing before.
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
"Educate the masses preferentially would be my first suggestion."

Sure. How do you pay for this planned massive increase in educational opportunities without creating the bubble in higher education that subsidized college loans have caused? If you find a good way to do this without raising some other sort of tax, then please let me know. Otherwise, you're just driving the government further into debt.

Also, the double-taxation is a non-issue here. All capital gains are already double-taxed, so it's not like this is against the law or the spirit of the law.

"Jobs are already scarce enough as it is. Wouldn't removing some of the potential workforce free up jobs for those without the benefit of a large inheritance, and increase the overall quality of life for Americans as a whole"

This "workforce" you talk of is in the thousands of people. Maybe tens of thousands. Taking them out would have no effect on unemployment rates. The largest number of households that have fallen under this have been.....0.7% of households. More recently, it's been 0.3%

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/estate-tax-victims-are-only-the-03/

Andrew Carnegie endorsed an estate tax even greater than the one in place today. As did like minded J.P. Morgan.

@BrownPaperTiger - no businesses would ever be forced to split up, because any successful business is going to be a corporation and not a sole proprietorship.
@Goldfinger You said " no businesses would ever be forced to split up, because any successful business is going to be a corporation and not a sole proprietorship."
I call bullshit. You could EASILY have an agri-business (for example) that was sole prop or partnership worth more than AUD5M or USD5M. What happens then?
Both my brothers run service businesses easily worth more than AUD5M, one as sole prop and one as partnership. Both employ 20+ people. Forcing a sale to satisfy death duties would be terrible for the employees.

Education in the US, for example, could easily also be funded by a modest reduction in "defence" spending. Don't ask for an example and then say its unaffordable unless you implement the specific tax under discussion. That's a tenuous link and not especially logical.

If levelling the playing field is the objective, find a way to bring people up, not push them down. Taking something away from people that have, rather than giving to those that don't is an unimaginative solution to a problem.
Skittles (1014 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
I agree that it wouldn't have some big impact on unemployment rates, but I'm thinking about those 10,000 families that will have better lives because of it. Then, there's the trickle-down effect: Tier A takes in 10,000 people from Tier B, who them take 10,000 from Tier C, etc.

This is all theorycrafting, and I know things aren't as simple as I write, but I'm stating my point. Should 10,000 families, plus people benefiting from the residual effect, not be put in a better situation because it won't impact the stats?
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
"The Tax Policy Center calculates less than 50 farms and family-run businesses were required to pay the estate tax in 2011, and only 40 will owe any estate tax in 2012."

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/12/12/estate-tax-deadlock-could-hit-hard-on-family-farms/

"The study shows that in 2007, investment real estate — which includes farms, undeveloped land, real-estate investment funds, real estate partnerships and other investments — accounted for only 15% of total portfolios for estates over $3.5 million. Farms are only a fraction of the 15%."

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/12/16/does-the-estate-tax-hurt-farmers-and-family-businesses/

While some small business may ultimately be impacted by it, the numbers are very, very small.

I also think you're not understanding what "funding means" Let me explain a bit (hypothetical). Let's say the US government budget is $100 billion, $40 billion of which goes to defense. The US gets $100 billion in revenue from taxes, $2 billion of which comes from the estate tax. Now, let's say the education program costs $10 billion. You cut the tax, cut $10 billion of spending from defense and now you still have a $100 billion budget, but only $98 billion in revenue. You've just increased the budget deficit. That's the point I'm driving at. How do you keep it revenue neutral?

And I want to raise people up as much as anyone else, but some people need to be pushed down, because they have more money than any person has a right to. There are those super-wealthy people like Carnegie, Hershey, Gates and Buffet who have their hearts in the right place and choose to give away their money because they realize this. But for every one of them there is a Walden family, who need to have their money taken from them.
"I'm thinking about those 10,000 families that will have better lives because of it."

A few points. First - you're assuming that all 10,000 of those families wouldn't be working, which isn't a fair assumption to make. Secondly, trickle-down doesn't really work that much, so the benefits there are small. And third, 10,000 people is .0003% of the population of the United States (I think...might be off by a factor of 10). Take the ~$2 billion the estate tax generates, and spread that out to thousands of other people. Several hundred million of that will go to Medicare and Medicaid payments. Hundreds of millions more will go to pay the members of our armed services, or pay factory workers for more military hardware.

I'm sure the rich would spend some of the money they had, should they be allowed to keep it. But the government will spend all of it and more importantly redistribute it to those more in need.
Skittles (1014 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
I'm not assuming that all 10,000 of those families wouldn't be working, and my argument is more philosophical in nature. I do understand the effect that it has on the budget, though. When you put it like that, I can certainly see the argument.

I never intended on getting into a heated debate on the subject, as I have neither the desire nor the knowledge to do so. It's a sticky situation, for sure, and I just wanted to add my own two cents on the matter.
Did you really type "need to have their money taken from them" ?
loowkey (132 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
Taxing the super rich won't help reduce national debt or poverty. Whoever it will encourage them to invest here or elsewhere. I'm inclined to believe that the threat of heavy taxation and zero percent interest will chase out the extremely wealthy. They might be better off in the emerging markets
They don't have to be physically present in emerging markets to invest in them. And taxation to France-like levels will chase them out (unless, of course, everyone adopts those taxation levels, in which case it doesn't matter). But as far as normal tax rates go, the US isn't that bad for the wealthy (given all of the loopholes and such).

And @BrownPaperTiger - I was more referring to the Waldens in particular in my mind when I was typing that, since they're the biggest load of scumbags around.
mendax (321 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
The USA is 31 of 32 of OECD countries for taxation. And yet the higher tax rates don't seem to have done everyone else any harm.
Draugnar (0 DX)
11 Dec 13 UTC
.3% of American households is 300,000 households (approximately 100,000,000 households for 350,000,000 people... So 30 times your 10k estimate.
Draugnar (0 DX)
11 Dec 13 UTC
As far as you Eurothugs wanting to control American economic policies... We kicked Britain ass out of America for that reason. Keep your damned dirty paws off my money. We don't want socialism and especially not from Britain, home of the wealthiest family in the world.

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127 replies
Randomizer (722 D)
12 Dec 13 UTC
I wish I was this rich if I ever was in trouble
http://www.insideedition.com/headlines/7481-rich-teen-avoids-prison-for-fatal-dui-with-affluenza-defense

The son of rich Dallas parents got two years probation at a ultra rich rehab camp after killing 4 people and injured others when he drove at 70 mph into the group helping a motorist change a tire. The kid claimed he couldn't tell right from wrong because his parents bought him everything including apparently the judge.
1 reply
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Dec 13 UTC
When Athletes Fuck Up On Live TV
http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2013/december/amir-williams-remembers-he-s-on-live-tv-just-in-time.html

Self-explanatory.
0 replies
Open
MitchellCurtiss (164 D)
10 Dec 13 UTC
Ducks
Comment with any feelings or stories about ducks you may have.
42 replies
Open
hecks (164 D)
12 Dec 13 UTC
MLB Cracks Down on Home Plate Collisions
http://espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove13/story/_/id/10121849/mlb-intends-ban-home-plate-collisions-2015

What do people think about this? Are players getting soft, or is it about time?
8 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
12 Dec 13 UTC
Global Cooling: A mere 40 Years Ago...
Remember when the Scientific Consence, including NASA, NCAR and other well respected groups of scientists were freaking out about the dramatic weather caused by the new ice age. Ahhhh...good times, good times...
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/1970s-ice-age-scare/
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/12/12/1974-ncar-called-global-cooling-the-new-norm-and-blamed-climate-disasters-on-it/
8 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
08 Dec 13 UTC
How is the Syrian civil war going to end?
Taking thoughts.
59 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
10 Dec 13 UTC
simple question
Feet in southarabia moves to egipt
Feet in egipt moves to northarabia
Fleet iraq supports move to northarabia
is it possible?
5 replies
Open
Skittles (1014 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
We need more of a late-night crowd
It's next to impossible to get a live game going around midnight, and even the forums tend to be pretty dead.
11 replies
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2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
10 Dec 13 UTC
Best Music of 2013
What are your favorite albums? Songs? Videos that aren't Blurred Lines?
39 replies
Open
Feeniks (694 D)
11 Dec 13 UTC
Gunboat Games
What is the best way to improve at gunboat games? I've been told several times that I am a worthless waste of space. And I would like to become a waste of space with a minuscule bit of worth. How can I bridge the gap? I tend to do better when I can manipulate people into what I want them to do.
26 replies
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