Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
13 Nov 13 UTC
(+4)
This is not a goodbye, it is an apology.
An open letter, to jmo from YJ
49 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
13 Nov 13 UTC
(+6)
Follow up forum moderation annoucement
Goldfinger and I will do the forum moderation from here on out. All other mods are there for emergencies and blatant cheating accusations/ongoing gunboat threads.
I hope this will resolve any outstanding issue. If it does not, please email us at [email protected]
15 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
14 Nov 13 UTC
So, I'm down to res and tap-out hits right now...
...and I think I just smoked a piece of turkey.
0 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
13 Nov 13 UTC
Hey Mr Tanbourine Man ......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24935048
2 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
David Barton
Who the hell gave this guy a microphone in the first place? And who the hell told him to try justifying one of the largest and longest-lasting massacres in human history?
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bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
"A lot of it is based on what you have to do to secure justice and to secure the protection of life and liberties for your citizens and you do what you have to do at times, but you play on the rules sometimes that the other guys have set up. And if they're not going to negotiate with things like the Geneva treaty or other rules of civilization, you still have to secure the life and the property and the protection of your citizens.

You have to deal, a lot of it, with how the enemy responds. It's got to be based on what the enemy responds [to,] you cannot reason with certain types of terrorists; and see that's why we could not get the Indians to the table to negotiate with us on treaties until after we had thoroughly whipped so many tribes ... What happened was the Indian leaders said "they're trying to change our culture" and so they declared war on all the white guys and went after the white guys and that was King Philip's War. It was really trying to be civilized on one side and end torture and the Indians were threatened by the ending of torture and so we had to go in and we had to destroy Indian tribes all over until they said "oh, got the point, you're doing to us what we're doing to them, okay, we'll sign a treaty."

Take, for example, what happened in the western plains wars in the late 1800s when we were taking on the plains Indians. I'm not talking about treaties, I'm not talking about behavior of Americans toward Indians or vice versa, there were violations on both sides of nearly every treaty. I'm talking about what happened in ending those wars after Custer and everything that went on.

People complain about the fact that the American military and buffalo hunters went out and wiped out all the buffalo in the western plains. Doing that was what brought the Indians to their knees because the Indians lived on those wide western plains where there were very few towns; Indians didn't go into town to buy supplies, they went to the buffalo herds, that's where they got their meat, that's where they got their coats, the hides provided coats, they provided covering for their teepees.

If you don't have the buffalos, those Indians cannot live on the open western plains without those buffalo and so what happened was the military wiped out the supply line by wiping out the buffalo. That's what brought those wars to an end, that's what brought the Indians to their knees and ended all the western conflict."

Come on, man. Shut the fuck up.

Sincerely,
Every single Indian and part-Indian and anyone with half a bit of knowledge about Indians in North America
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
12 Nov 13 UTC
(+2)
* Native American
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
No, Indian. American Indian if you want. I've explained that in the past.
steephie22 (182 D(S))
12 Nov 13 UTC
Explain it again please. In all seriousness. You're right about OP IMO.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
It's the process of taking the word back, steephie. It's a pejorative term because people that aren't Indian made it a pejorative. Native American is simply a less hateful way to say "Indian." It's political correctness. It's just an extension of the hate from the last 400+ years.

Watch this video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9zPRVKQvIM. Same idea, different context; probably one you're more familiar with as most people are.

I've been told in the past that "Indian" is just as offensive as anything else because Columbus and other explorers are the ones that gave that name. But really, in today's world, you're not about to call me Potawatomi (not 100%, but enough), the guys I know up north Algonquin, and the guys I know out west Shawnee. Neither are the majority of people able to differentiate. So pick your poison. I pick Indian.
Oh, well I didn't say that because I thought Indian was offensive. I said it because it's incorrect, because...well....this is an Indian

http://tinyurl.com/p68ahu4

Not this

http://tinyurl.com/qhjldr9

There can't be two races of people called the same thing
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
Here's a good litmus test for deciding if someone should be considered Indian: do they or their relatives come from India? If yes, they are Indian. If no, they aren't.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
According to Columbus they are the same thing ^_^

I have no problem with American Indian for clarity. Typically context can differentiate the two pretty easily though.
krellin (80 DX)
12 Nov 13 UTC
Wait a minute...you are "taking back" the pejorative...so you want us to say "Indian" instead of "Native American" (and frankly I'm nor sure why either is a pejorative/offensive...it's a descriptive term...good lord)...but anyway, you want to take back the word, take away the power to offend with it, etc...

And by the way, "I've been told in the past that "Indian" is just as offensive as anything else because Columbus and other explorers are the ones that gave that name." It's offensive because Columbus saw people that looked like Indians (i.e. as in Indians from India, whom were a known people) and mistakenly called them Indians? THAT is why it's an offensive term?

lol Good lord...people just seek to be offended....gmafb...

So why don't you support the free and open use of the word "nigger" until it becomes so commonplace that it loses it's power to offend?
krellin (80 DX)
12 Nov 13 UTC
@abge - well, we really don't know *where* the people on the American continents came from, and it's very possible they came across a land bridge from Asia, thus making them, very probably, related to "Indians" (pre-India)...
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
I don't mind people saying "nigger" if they aren't using it as a means to offend. Same goes for pretty much anything. You're a tell-it-as-it-is person, krellin, you of all people would be the first to attack ugly euphemisms.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
Actually, krellin, I was just reading in Science that it's very likely that many Native Americans originally descended from Western Europeans.
krellin (80 DX)
12 Nov 13 UTC
Because they aren't "Native" to the American continent, any more than I am...in that at one time there were no people on this land mass, and eventually they came here, assuming that either via creation (ie. God pops people in to existence in the middle east) or via evolution, where theory would suggest that "cradle of Africa" is where humans came from...either way, nobody is "native" to the American land mass.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
*Eastern Europeans
krellin (80 DX)
12 Nov 13 UTC
@bo - I congratulate you on your reasonable stance! :)

@Abge - I was unaware of that theory of (the people that were here before Columbus') new suggested line of descent.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
(+1)
Krellin Thats a ridiculous argument.
krellin (80 DX)
12 Nov 13 UTC
Abge -- wouldn't Eastern Europeans be closely tied to Asian/Mongol decent? Therefore the People-That-Were-on-the-American-Continent-Before-Columbus are a hell of a closer genetically to Indians that those crazy white folks from whom Columbus shares his ancestry?
krellin (80 DX)
12 Nov 13 UTC
@Abge - which of my many ridiculous arguments are you saying is ridiculous? That Native Americans are not native because...uh....they didn't' spring in to existence here?

Sorry, Abge, if native equates to "my people came here long ago, and then other people were born here", then ***I*** an a Native American.

Get it?
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
krellin ... draw a line on your timeline. Civilization began WAY after Pangaea.
krellin (80 DX)
12 Nov 13 UTC
na·tive (ntv)
adj.
1. Existing in or belonging to one by nature; innate: native ability.
2. Being such by birth or origin: a native Scot.
3. Being one's own because of the place or circumstances of one's birth: our native land.
4. Originating, growing, or produced in a certain place or region; indigenous: a plant native to Asia.

Absent "Native Americans" literally springing it to existence from the soil, #1 and #4 are out. Therefore, native is ME and American Indians
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
Oops, I misread your statement...

Mah bad.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
No apparently E. Europeans were closer to W. European than Asians.
krellin (80 DX)
12 Nov 13 UTC
It's possible that the "Native Americans" upon traveling to the land mass that is now the American Continent found other travelers here first and killed them off...thus making those now-dead, unknown early citizens the real natives...

You can't disprove this...
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
Krellin, we haven't found those people by my knowledge. Until we do, it's simply a circumstantial theory. And if we do, we can say that whichever tribes existed at that time were wrong and immoral, if you please. That doesn't mean that we by doing what we've done weren't.
krellin (80 DX)
12 Nov 13 UTC
And that is the problem with ***anyone*** that tries to put pretty little special labels on themselves.

I don't really give a shit if you are native. You are first and foremost a fellow *human being*...why the fuck does it matter if you are a "Native American" or a Pollack (like me) or an angry German or an Eskimo or a vodka-pickled Russian....how about, just once, we put away the "I'm-special-because...." labels and all just be fellow humans for a day.
steephie22 (182 D(S))
12 Nov 13 UTC
@krellin: I would definitely say they are a bit more "Native" than you.

Their descendants have lived there for a very long time while your descendants have lived here for, how long? Couple of hundred years?
krellin (80 DX)
12 Nov 13 UTC
steephie....I don't realliy give a shit if they are a "bit more native" than me. There is a *definition* of native. Per definition, *I* am a native. Why does one group of humans have to apply special labels to distinguish themselves from other humans....and then get all fucking whiny and bitchy when people use other special labels to distinguish them...

Maybe if people stopped self-segregating segregation in our thinking/attitudes wouldn't be so natural.
krellin (80 DX)
12 Nov 13 UTC
Steephie....does the definition of "native" state a given time frame/number of generations which must pass before you can be native? No...I'm a native. Suck on it.
steephie22 (182 D(S))
12 Nov 13 UTC
I think native is like fluent; there are different layers of fluency IMO and same counts for being native IMO.

The title Native American, not native American, is pretty reserved to the guys with the feathers.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
Krellin, no one is saying that all non-indigenous peoples should leave the continent.

If you really want people to think of everyone else as a person, you have to abolish race, nationality, ethnicity, religion, etc etc... in other words, good luck.

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74 replies
hecks (164 D)
13 Nov 13 UTC
Worst Product Name Ever
Is it just me, or is this the worst-named product ever?
http://www.stonyfield.com/products/baby-kids/yokids/squeezers-strawberry
If you ever drive a van around town offering children a "YoKids Squeezer," you'll get arrested in two minutes flat. Don't they focus-group these things?
4 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
12 Nov 13 UTC
Why wouldn't the NSA screw with American elections?
Motive? Check. Means? Check. Opportunity? Check.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/11/the-surveillance-state-puts-us-elections-at-risk-of-manipulation/281232/
19 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
13 Nov 13 UTC
(+2)
Its me again, your old friend zultar
I need some advice, but this is quite a bit different than any previous advice I've needed.
7 replies
Open
DogeKingofPINGAS (0 DX)
13 Nov 13 UTC
cunt
Bitch
9 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
13 Nov 13 UTC
Can you marry a minor? Can you have sex with them when you're married?
Just a question I had after reading through Conservative Man's rather... typical thread...

In which countries is this possible? In which not? How about in practice?
5 replies
Open
GayJBrace (0 DX)
13 Nov 13 UTC
How to Play
What are the general rules of this game... what are the strategies
2 replies
Open
Maniac (189 D(B))
12 Nov 13 UTC
Testing a premise.
I caught a repeat of a TV programme with Dara O'Briain the other day. The premise was that any word you choose in the dictionary could be guessed by someone who could ask you 20 questions. I'm not sure if this is true.
21 replies
Open
Lebosfc (0 DX)
13 Nov 13 UTC
(+2)
My Dick Feels Like Corn
Guys would you be more afraid of a goat with a raging boner or a bear with much pained balls.
3 replies
Open
Help with how how to use Support Move to do what I want
Game: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=129188
Looking for help on understanding how the Support Move command is actually used. FAQ is ambiguous and I am a new player.
8 replies
Open
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
13 Nov 13 UTC
My son wants to learn Diplomacy
I am thrilled and proud. He is 12 years old.
I've created a classic game where he can try it out. I will give the password to players who want to join in showing him the ropes.
11 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
Five... Seven... Three... One... Two... Two... Eight...
JMOs thread got me thinking about number stations. Has anyone ever stumbled across one? Are they even still used?
13 replies
Open
Putin33 (111 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
Why do people take pictures of their food?
Please explain this bizarre phenomenon to me.
19 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
12 Nov 13 UTC
Star Trek Enterprise started to bore me
But Season 3 seems okay, save the occasional heavily-inspired-on-previous-star-trek-series episode. The Xindi are well thought out IMHO.
10 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
12 Nov 13 UTC
Who closed jmo's thread?
Just for the record, because it's kind of hilarious.
22 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
12 Nov 13 UTC
Stand your ground .......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24907851

Luckily the bitch was only a black burglar otherwise some folk might be calling for justice right now
7 replies
Open
holbi (123 D)
12 Nov 13 UTC
gb-76 cancel or draw?
Hi players... England and Germany are missing... this game is not going to be fair. What about drawing or cancelling?

Thanks.
11 replies
Open
tfwood (100 D)
12 Nov 13 UTC
Another site newbie
Long time postal dip veteran been out of the hobby for a while got a jones to play again (last played ftf at Origins couple of years ago). Just signed up for Classic_57. Saw on another post where someone said the moves took long (one a day). I giggled at that, as a veteran postal player. Not quite sure I understand this betting points thing, but I will play and see how it goes. Wish me luck and don't think of me as blood in the water. tfwood
6 replies
Open
ReBrock (189 D)
12 Nov 13 UTC
(+1)
Multy suspicious
Can you please check this game for multy!
gameID=128821
Thank you very much!
5 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
08 Nov 13 UTC
(+2)
Should Literature Be Useful? (YES. ABSOLUTELY. ...Right?)
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2013/11/should-literature-be-useful.html I disagree with the degree to which the author of this article praises sheer idleness and imagination in literature--in my mind, that is NOT what makes literature great, at least not on its own. The best authors, far from being simply imaginative, had arguments to make about the human condition OR very real arguments to make on social, psychological, and political policy. Thoughts?
117 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
10 Nov 13 UTC
Why can't we get a live game going?
It's really tough recently
2 replies
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
11 Nov 13 UTC
The Law
Ever been in trouble with the law? Been to court?

I've had 2 cases, 1 criminal and 1 civil, both of which I won. You guys?
30 replies
Open
flag (0 DX)
03 Nov 13 UTC
(+2)
whats the deal
seems like there is a lot of banning going on here whats up with that

never been banned from any other forums but this one is totalitarian in ways hitler and stalin would have dreamed about
20 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
08 Nov 13 UTC
NFL Pick 'em: Week 10--The Niners/Bears w/ Reinforcements & the Pack w/o Rodgers!
We start Week 10 tonight with the Redskins and Vikings...but I'll just assume we're all picking the REDSKINS (and now watch the Vikings play spoiler, lol.) Da Bears have Jay Cutler back and will be going up against Suh and the Lions for 1st place in the NFC North, and with Aaron Rodgers gone 4-6 weeks, this could be the Lions' big chance. The Niners get Manningham and Aldon Smith back vs. the Panthers, Bengals/Ravens, Broncos/Chargers, it's Week 10--PICK 'EM!
7 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (865 D)
10 Nov 13 UTC
Masters Round 7 Game 1
We're still waiting for one player to join. Whoever it is, hurry the fuck up.
11 replies
Open
Brewmachine (104 D)
11 Nov 13 UTC
(+2)
FUCK YOU GUYS
just....fuck you all its a distaction conspiracy and i dont like it but i do im sorry just stop the bitch let porn on forum as well as blankflag /sorry #dont_silence_me
12 replies
Open
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