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Sandgoose (0 DX)
06 Apr 12 UTC
Endorse me!
Hello all, I am looking for endorsements to put on my profile, kind of like a movie script kinda thing. Please endorse me..best get on my profile with your name :D

"Sandgoose is one of the greatest players to play with" - your name here
"funny, intelligent, interesting" - your name here
46 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
12 Apr 12 UTC
This might sound a little too much like "The White Man's Burden"
and I'm aware of that but...
Thucydides (864 D(B))
12 Apr 12 UTC
do you ever feel that it is probably actually impossible to do the right thing in terms of your privilege, much less even know that something you're doing is wrong?

As someone who has the privilege in almost every category, it's something I think about a lot and it's a frustration that has been building but gone unvoiced, because, well, should someone so privileged really be complaining about it?
fiedler (1293 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
You should feel terrible everyday about your privileges.

The right thing is to be a good person - hardly rocket science.

Thank you, that is all.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
12 Apr 12 UTC
Examples:

As a man:
-properly mitigating male gaze
-using non-sexist language (why are young women girls but young men aren't boys, etc.)
-the whole abortion thing. Men can't have babies so it's borderline terrifying to try to talk about anything involving birth with women

As a white guy:
-language again
-the dilemma of intentionally acting colorblind or intentionally diversifying. both acknowledge race in uncomfortable ways

Rich/Class:
-The dilemma of using or enjoying expensive things, especially around people who might not be able to afford it
-Being the last person to leave a building as it closes and the janitors have to wait for you to move

You see where I'm going right?

What's the right reaction to this kind of thing, besides just trying your best to be sensitive?
Thucydides (864 D(B))
12 Apr 12 UTC
It follows the pattern of most education:

The more you know about it, the harder it becomes to act on it decisively. The more I learn about privilege and myriad ways I may be perpetuating it, the more exhausted I become, which again, seems like a shitty thing to complain about, but in all seriousness what is a strategy for dealing with it?
Thucydides (864 D(B))
12 Apr 12 UTC
Specific example:

I recently broke down my facebook friends by demographic and found that about 50% of them are my own race. Not that that's that unusual, however the breakdown of the people I pass on the street is not 50% white. It's way less.

So what does that say about me, how should I feel about it, what should I do about it, etc.

I feel like a lot of time is spent (example: feminist blogs, which I spend a lot of time reading) pointing out what is wrong with things, without suggestions for what could be done to reverse or combat them.

Which I guess if you think about it is a pretty common criticism: "All you're doing is criticizing without presenting solutions." <--- funny because this in itself is a solutionless criticism.
largeham (149 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
Regarding your facebook friends, what is the racial breakup of people your age (assuming your friends are mostly in your age group)? Did/does your school/university have a majority white population?
fiedler (1293 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
"The path to enlightenment is as sharp and narrow as a razor's edge."
- Katha-Upanishad (paraphrased)

No reasonable person expects perfection from anyone else.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
12 Apr 12 UTC
Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
Oh but they do fiedler.

Have you read these feminist blogs. Lol.

Anyway yes the university enrollment is majority white. But still. It's not like I never have the chance to interact with people who aren't students at my university.
fiedler (1293 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
@thucy:
"Have you read these feminist blogs."

Oh anyone can complain and criticise, easiest thing in the world (I'm a blackbelt).
The trick is to divine if they have a valid and reasonable argument, or are they just complaining as a sublimation of the general pain of being alive. Many people don't even realise there is a difference between the two (especially women, in general).

The reason for all the complaining is that we are raised in the west to believe the world is good and has a lot to offer us. It's a good motivating myth. BUT in asia, in all the religions of asia going back thousands of years - they all view life/existence as fundamentally an evil, that is to be endured and transcended. It's a BIG difference in basic outlook.

So, if you realise that being alive is (to varying degrees) painful no what you try, or what laws you change, or how much you get your way, you will see that some people will always complain endlessly no matter what. The only way out is enlightenment and transcendence.

So most westerners, particularly the more intelligent ones like this forums members (giggle), will go through the first 25-30 years of life wondering why the TV says life is jellybeans and orgasms but their own life experience doesn't match these advertisements. Must be something wrong with you, right? :)
Thucy...you are too good of a person, and the fact that you're aware of these dilemmas should give you some comfort rather than pain. The fact that you care and are willing to change your behavior sets you above most of the rest of us.

But your note on language gives me some room to say something that I've been wondering for a very long time. Why is it okay for black people to call each other "nigger" but it is unacceptable for anyone of any other race to call them "nigger"? Not in a demeaning sense or anything, but in the same context as we would otherwise say "Yo, what's up bro?"

(really hoping I don't get shit for asking that)
Octavious (2732 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
The only thing worse than a person of privilege enjoying a life that they don't deserve, it's a person of privilege being bloody miserable. What greater insult to those desperately trying to improve their lives and their families lives than you being given what they're toiling for on a silver platter and tossing it away as if it's worthless.

You're a bloody fool, Thucy. A slave to your own impossible standards, and drowning in a sea of misplaced guilt. How can you hope to improve the lives of others if you don't know what it is to live as a free man?
semck83 (229 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
Wow, this thread is pretty entertaining, I must say.
fiedler (1293 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
@Octav: To have standards you must define standards. Thucy is on the right track.
You can tell him not to worry about this stuff but his brain will do whatever feels like anyway :P

@thucy:
"but in all seriousness what is a strategy for dealing with it?"
- figure out what YOU value, work towards it, and try to be kind to others.
Note: what you value will change over time.

“We will gradually become indifferent to what goes on in the minds of other people when we acquire a knowledge of the superficial nature of their thoughts, the narrowness of their views and of the number of their errors. Whoever attaches a lot of value to the opinions of others pays them too much honor.”
― Arthur Schopenhauer


Oh, and read Schopenhauer :)
ulytau (541 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
Sounds like a new meme, First World Thucy Problems.
fiedler (1293 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
@smuck83: But would you pay admission?
RepairmanJack (107 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
As a white male I would think you have bought into the guilt complex far enough. You don't have to find or create diversity in your life to assuage any guilt you feel for privilege. What is exactly is privilege anyway in your eyes? Who told you that you are privileged and in what manner? Because you weren't born into poverty? Because you are a white male?

The Repairman does free deprogramming LOL
semck83 (229 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
No way, fiedler. If I did, Thucy would just start experiencing all this angst about how he had gained money just for being what he was, and it wasn't just, when there were poor people out there who couldn't pay their mortgages. It might be the tipping-point of guilt that would keep him from getting out of bed tomorrow. How could I have that on my conscience?
semck83 (229 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
By the way, Thucy, aren't you supposed to be studying for an econ exam?
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
@Octavious.

If jettisoning my guilt means defending my privilege and attempting to perpetuate it then, and I mean this as kindly as possible, you can go get bent. Fuck that. I'm not interested in being one of the assholes of history.

Goldfinger - the reason is because black people are often offended by non-black people saying nigger. That is the whole reason. If what you say offends a person, then what you said was offensive. There doesn't have to be any more reason than that.

*should* it offend them? Who knows. It's not really important to try to answer, is it?
Because yeah maybe I might want to say it in the way that they do and show comradery, but if they don't like me doing that and take offense, I probably shouldn't be whining about it. I wouldn't like it if they called me cracker, even in jest or as a term of endearment. It's difficult to totally understand because, after all, I'm not black. But that's my idea about it.

The reason other people's opinions matter is that it does matter, morally, if someone's feelings are hurt.

This doesn't mean you're never justified hurting someone's feelings, it just means that it does matter, even if sometimes it's outweighed.

@semck Why?
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
I *am* studying for it lol
fiedler (1293 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
@semck83: I dunno! Those are YOUR problems! Fucked if I care :P
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
On the contrary semck I find that guilt can be a supremely motivating force, if, that is, you believe that something can be done about whatever it is you feel guilty about.

As a Christian you should know. Is not all of Christianism motivated by guilt for sins?
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
PS Repairman Jack, whether youre white or black its going to take a bit more than someone just telling me to cover my eyes and plug my ears for me to believe the world isn't messed up.

What do you mean "who told me I have privilege" lol. If you can't see your own privilege you are truly blind.
largeham (149 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
Lol, Repairman Jack seems like the Bicycle repairman from Monty Python, fighting international communism wherever it appears!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoATWN68IZA
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
Oh but you raise a fair point. What is privilege.

Privilege is when you get the better end of the society's deal.

And white middle class American males get a pretty darn good deal. Thus -> privilege.

There are other kinds of privilege. You are privileged if you speak English, especially if you grew up speaking it. You are privileged if you are able-bodied, healthy, or young. Etc.

But race, class, and sex and sexual orientation are the most prominent.

And that's not to say that being a white male doesn't carry a certain level of discrimination and that sort of thing. It definitely does. I'm not the guy you'll find carrying Fox News' reverse racism banner but this is a phenomenon that does exist. It's just kind of bad form to complain about when real racism is alive and well. The discrimination I experience for being white is so mild that you almost don't notice it. I also experience discrimination because of my age, it's probably my most "disadvantaged" aspect. The age thing is tricky actually, because there are privileges that come with being young as well as older.

Anyway. That's what privilege is.
fiedler (1293 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
+1 largeham, one of the best scenes ever!
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
It's rather simple really, once you have identified what you see as broken in the world, decide a way you can try to fix it and go for it. I feel the need to do something better with my life, so I'm studying Arabic and the Middle East. I want to combat the rising islamophobia in my country, and I want to aid the substantial refugee population here, either as a translator or as a teacher.

If you don't want to devote a career to it, then do something in your spare time. There are countless ways to help people. Volunteering, giving to charity, counseling etc. I'm sure you can find something.
semck83 (229 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
@Thucy,

"As a Christian you should know. Is not all of Christianism motivated by guilt for sins?"

In one sense yes, but not as a daily motivating factor; that problem has been solved.

Anyway, to your other question: I fear I am so unkind as to find it somewhat humorous to see somebody falling prey to the absurd conclusions of absurd beliefs. True, you only came to this somewhat rare state of affairs due to your admirable desire for consistency (where most of your mindset would turn it off once it started to get inconvenient). Nevertheless, there's a certain primal humor to it all.

You feel guilt because of your privilege? Why the heck? What possible sense does that even make? What did you do to be born white, rich, or Texan? If you want to help people, then do what you can to actually help them in meaningful ways and stop stressing out about completely moronic symbolism. (I'm not saying offend people, by the way, but that's already comprehended by your excluded "be sensitive").

But if you really just can't live with the fact that, by continuing to take advantage of what you were born to, you are "perpetuating" the system, then you know what? There are easy answers. Give away all your money. Drop out of university. Refuse to take a job from anybody of your own race or sex, ever, for any reason. Have a sex change operation. Learn a different language and refuse to speak English or act like you understand it. Et cetera.

Or, accept your place in life, and live both generously and freely as who you are.
fiedler (1293 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
Being born Texan is a privilege???
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
"It's rather simple really, once you have identified what you see as broken in the world, decide a way you can try to fix it and go for it. I feel the need to do something better with my life, so I'm studying Arabic and the Middle East. I want to combat the rising islamophobia in my country, and I want to aid the substantial refugee population here, either as a translator or as a teacher.

If you don't want to devote a career to it, then do something in your spare time. There are countless ways to help people. Volunteering, giving to charity, counseling etc. I'm sure you can find something."

No worries here. Perhaps I was misunderstood. I have a purpose and goal and such. I feel at peace with it that it's the right thing. I also agree that any issue does have its own response.

What I'm complaining about here is a sheer number of worthy problems.

Yes, in certain areas, there are choices that just have to be made. I may feel for poor people in Latin America or Papua New Guinea. I probably could have done something about that, but I chose to tackle other issues with my life in accordance with my skills and interests.

The issues are the ones that you cannot just get away from like that sort of regional thing. They are the ones that affect your everyday interpersonal relationships. I am surrounded by people of other races. So I how I treat them, being white, just matters, whether I ignore it or not those issues *are* at play.

Same goes for class, sex, etc etc. Do you see what I mean?

Some of the advice I'm hearing is just "embrace who you are". I certainly embrace being a white male, in the sense that I know I did not choose my birth and I am comfortable and proud of my identity.

But that doesn't mean I get to ignore the issues that come from my birth. Maybe I didn't choose to be a white man but being a white man does have certain implications in this world, just as any other identity has certain implications.

And, because of culture and history, it so happens that being a white man actually carries some significant weight. This goes beyond just being nice to people and not flaunting wealth, or patriarchy or white dominance. Although that would be nice, what this is really about is acknowledging that the reasons white men are privileged are morally wrong, and understanding this leads to an understanding that one should do what one can to bring these privileges to an end.

Because I don't deserve them more than those poor people in New Guinea. They didn't choose their birth either. And that's the crux of it. That's why it's not okay to just walk away from it.

What prompted this was related to gender so let's just focus on that.

We men (a few exceptions here) can scarcely understand what it is like to be a woman. Of course that is true by necessity but it true on levels beyond.

This culture is one that treats women as external objects. One that tells them that the most important thing about them is whether they are beautiful. I could go on, but you see what I'm getting at.

We should not live in a world where women are far more likely to get raped.

We DO and so ignoring THAT fact as well and telling women not to be extra careful of their surroundings is just as irresponsible as pretending its okay that they have to be.

So.. do you see a bit better now?
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
"Being born Texan is a privilege???"

"American by birth, Texan by the grace of God."
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
PS there are specific and important reasons why I don't drop out of school and give everything away. I'll leave it at that without preaching much more.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
Anyway here is what prompted this issue.

Was reading some feminist blogs again (lol) and as normally happens I started feeling incredibly conflicted.

On the one hand I see and acknowledge and support the idea that feminists clearly have the moral high ground. Everything they say is pretty much something I have to agree with.

But what bothers me very very deeply are two things

1) When they seem to lack a fundamental understanding of what it is like to be male, or more to the point, to have been raised as a man in American culture
2) When they go one step further and use antagonistic and demonizing language to describe those (especially broad groups like "men") who disagree with them.

But I feel incredibly uncomfortable expressing this distaste because I sense it would take far less to be labelled an "MRA" and grouped in with those who they're attacking.

I don't want to come off as defending the men they're attacking because 99 times out 100 the men are totally in the wrong on the issue that's being written about. But still. It just rubs me the wrong way, big time.
semck83 (229 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
Thucy,

I think you're playing identity way too much, though, which is part of the problem in itself. Very few people want to be treated a particular way based on their race, class, etc., in the first place -- that IS what caused a lot of issues in the first place, and you ARE just perpetuating it, but you're doing so by posting this thread, too. Treat each person you meet kindly and as an individual. Stressing that not enough of your friends are black is disrespecting all of your friends (black and white) and all of your potential friends (black and white).

(The only exception would be if for some reason you decided that this was true in the first place because of some kind of discrimination BY YOU. If it is, then fix it to the best of your ability and move on).

As for the gender stuff -- I partially agree (women are treated badly in various ways), though no way am I signing up generically for your view on gender after your bizarre thread the other day. It seems fairly clear to me that you're uncomfortable with the core biological constitution of the human species, and could never be comfortable unless/until you were part of some other species that didn't have sex at all. I'm certainly not ready to sign up for that or anything like it. (Most) men are naturally attracted to women. There is nothing wrong with that. Treating them as objects who have no purpose but to attract men -- needless to say (or maybe not), there is a lot wrong with that. However, it seems to me that the solution you implicitly propose is the wrong one: you don't solve it by erasing all differences between men and women. Rather, you try to encourage men to see women as people, and not objects.

I'm not really sure I understood where you were going on the last tangent, but yes, women should be careful of their surroundings in many places, that is true.
semck83 (229 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
Thucy,

When you disagree with something, say so. Don't worry about who you'll be grouped with. When you agree with something, say so. Don't worry about who you'll be grouped with.
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
I'm a feminist too, but I don't believe in every single thing other self-proclaimed feminists write in their blogs. There are so many different schools of thought in feminism. This is a very hands-on tip, but have you read any scholarly literature in those subjects? Some feminist theory, anthropology, sociology, post-colonialism, etc. I found it has helped me a lot to structure my thought on these subjects and know what is worth criticising and what is worth internalising. Trying to make sense of the contradictory mess of popular culture, and the wildly unstructured views expressed on the Internet, could drive anyone insane. Otherwise, it sounds like you're doing the right thing. Learning and trying to understand is really all you can do in issues of gender and race, unless you're running for office or something similar.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
Re: the friends. It stresses me only because I know that despite what I may think I almost certainly subconsciously prefer to hang around white people who look talk and act like me. That's what that was.

And without going back into what I was talking about before, which is a distant future projection with very little present-day relevance, I'll just say that I agree that there is nothing wrong with thinking women are attractive.

But maybe it's just me (though I doubt it) but as a hetero guy I *do* in fact often find myself thinking of attractive girls as attractive girls first, (and if I can get in their pants) and people second (and what their own interests concerns and rights are).

The things that bother me most about these issues of privilege that get brought to my attention periodically are the ones I see in myself.

And if the question is between denying I'm doing anything wrong and feeling over-guilty about something I choose to err on the side of guilt that justice might be better served. I don't know if I'm the only one that feels that way, but whatever. I guess I've just seen too much self-interest to stomach that for my own self any more than what I can't prevent.
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
And by the way, like semck83 says, you do seem to worry a lot about how you are perceived. I don't mean this in an insulting way, but you should really see a therapist to see if you can improve your way of interacting with and reacting to the world. Nothing wrong with it. I have ten years of psychoanalysis in my past.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
That's good advice Vaft.

Lol.

Finally I get what I came to this thread for. :P

But how can any decent person be made aware of something bad they had been doing unknowingly and not begin to worry if there are not other as yet undiscovered things?

I think some of you may get the wrong impression of me btw. It's not like I sit around all the time mulling these things over, I just may spend more time than most. I try to leave no stone unturned and avoid living the "unexamined life."

But that last statement was probably directed at no one, so excuse my apostrophe.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
Also I'm not upset by the notion of going to a therapist, so don't worry.

However I think "how I'm perceived" isn't a big an issue to me as you guys think it is. All I'm saying is that it does matter and should be considered in your calculations. I don't think it's the most important thing by any stretch.
semck83 (229 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
Well, Thucy, we're getting toward common ground maybe. It certainly IS a teaching of the Christian religion that one should be sensitive to one's sins and try to change them.

(Of course, it's also a teaching that without Christ that's both futile and largely pointless, but maybe that's for another day....)
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
Well that just hinges on what you think makes a bad thing bad.
Tolstoy (1962 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
From "Life Before Life: Children's Memories of Previous Lives" by Dr. Jim Tucker:

"Do our cases in general provide any evidence for the existence of karma?... I looked at our computer database to see if any characteristics of the previous personality would correlate with the circumstances that the subject was born into. Specifically, I looked at the following items about the previous personality - Was PP saintly? Was PP a criminal? Did PP commit moral transgressions? Was PP philanthropic or generous? And was PP active in religious observances? - to see if any of them correlated with the economic status of the subject, the social status of the subject, or the caste of the subject for Indian cases... When I ran the correlation tests, only one of the characteristics of the previous personality correlated with the circumstances of the subject. Saintliness in the previous personality showed a very strong correlation with the economic status of the subject and a significant correlation with the social status of the subject. This means that the more saintly the previous personality was considered to have been, the higher the economic status and social status that the child is likely to have..."

Enjoy your privilege, Thucy. You earned it.
Frank (100 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
For a few years, one of my roommates kept this book in the bathroom, I'm not sure I agree with all of it but it was interesting stuff to read. i think you'd find it interesting, thucy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiffed:_The_Betrayal_of_the_American_Man
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Apr 12 UTC
lol tolstoy. are you serious?

that looks like a good book frank thanks for the rec
RepairmanJack (107 D)
13 Apr 12 UTC
"There are other kinds of privilege. You are privileged if you speak English, especially if you grew up speaking it. You are privileged if you are able-bodied, healthy, or young. Etc.
But race, class, and sex and sexual orientation are the most prominent."

Well, I can tell you that without light there is no concept of darkness so where does that leave us? No one can have anything positive or "privileged" if someone else doesn't get the short end of the stick or in your case the "perceived" short end of the stick correct?

Thucy, what you stated sounds great and all but in the end it is just a social construct, it is not a universal truth. If I believe that the meek shall inherit the earth, am I privileged to to be born poor? If I believe in redemptive suffering, am I privileged because I was born with a debilitating disease? Where is the measuring line, where is the base point, the yard stick used to measure privilege? The meme in America is the white male is grandly privileged, is it not? Isn't that true only based on circumstances, some (not all I will grant you) that can be changed or that can shift? Obviously race and sex (well not 100% true with this transgendered nonsense and modern medicine) are the only two immutable characteristics. Class certainly can wax and wane and the others are all relative.

I identify as American, I am half white and half Filipino. I am Asian to most people based on my outward immutable characteristic. Does this bother me? No. Do I wish I was born 100% "white" like my father? Of course not. Does my mother? Of course not. Do some people in her family wish my father was Filipino, of course some do. So those relatives are missing the "privilege" message aren't they? Shouldn't I tell them next family get together that any value they put on their ethnic ties is not out of sheer prejudice (the common meme or social construct that I assume you would believe) but of out of ignorance as to what "privilege" is. Or should they not have wanted their niece or granddaughter to "gain" some privilege by marrying my white American father?

Are Cinderella stories wrong, marrying for privilege? What about competition to achieve status or necessary means to raise your station, is that wrong?

I know someone intimately who struggled with very similar questions and in the end their fixation on suffering, on injustice, on privilege, on man's inhumanity to man, led to their death. Did they make a difference before they passed? Surely. But I wonder was it enough to justify losing them? In the end I would rather have them be here as a middle class pharmacist enjoying any privilege others judged them to have rather than to be some dead heroic figure only to themselves or a few others. I know that is me being selfish and I am fine with that. If I couldn't make sense of it all to myself, I would have lost it all.

Don't twist yourself up. It sounds like there is some deep pain involved in you somewhere right now that has long gone unaddressed. Go out and do simple and good things. You don't do good because you are privileged, because you are privileged you can do much good. Think of any privilege you believe you have as a force multiplier and use it as a tool. The age old hero's question, why me?



NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
13 Apr 12 UTC
Thucy
Why do you think you're so privileged?
Your mail makes you sound like your a young man feeling some sort of liberal guilt but not really understanding why because you haven't actually worked out what is really important so maybe you think you're a lot better off than you are.
Arrogance and ignorance can be very limiting factors in our life, surely one of the best privileges is the ability to make high quality rational and objective decisions about personal matters that ultimately shape our quality of life and our happiness, that I see as privilege. Also the wisdom that comes from the experience of trying something, regardless of whether you succeeded or failed, that's a privilege.
Nigee


48 replies
dubmdell (556 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
Webcam Friday?
Is there interest in a game for this week? Everyone bailed last week. =(
11 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
I don't always metagame
But when I do, I post URLs.

http://imgur.com/GoXFa
7 replies
Open
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
09 Apr 12 UTC
Attention all gunboat snobs
Would you guys hook JimTheGrey up with some quality gunboat games for a lot lower than 500 point but-in, he's a F2Fer still trying to build up his bank account, and he told me he would kick all your asses if you were brave enough to play him...
111 replies
Open
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
08 Apr 12 UTC
Reboot: Vaft's 1009 point challenge
50 replies
Open
Nemesis17 (100 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
high stakes game please join
6 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
12 Apr 12 UTC
Answer this economics question please
See inside. I have a test tomorrow lol
51 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
08 Apr 12 UTC
Krellin, Re: Constitution
Per your request, I read the constitution. Here is what I found:

305 replies
Open
cspieker (18223 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
Why does the timer NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL TIME LEFT?
I noticed in a live game yesterday that a couple of times I changed my moves and hit "save" when the clock still said 2 seconds or something like that, but I got the "game has moved on, please refresh" thingy.

What is up with that? Why not have the clock actually indicate how many seconds you have left to get in your moves. Sometimes that can make a difference in a live game.
9 replies
Open
cteno4 (100 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
STALEMATE LINE!!!! LOLOL
Have you ever been stabbed by an ally for ONE measly supply center just so he could say that? Seriously, WTF. Grow up, people.
4 replies
Open
Lopt (102 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
Can't Talk - I'm Busy Faking Screenshots
STOP fucking cheating!!!
46 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
Play By Carrier Pigeon
Abgemacht has given his blessing for a carrier pigeon variant wherein players communicate via carrier pigeons. Who's up for it? I have six little birdies just waiting to fly the coup with diplomatic intrigue! Just think of the metagaming possibility when you intercept someone else's bird!
58 replies
Open
Sargmacher (0 DX)
12 Apr 12 UTC
1100 Point Gunboat
Who is interested?
6 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
12 Apr 12 UTC
The end of Capitalism?
http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2012/04/economy-and-markets?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/badgoldilocks

See inside...
14 replies
Open
Lopt (102 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
Cheating
I'm butt-hurt and I want you too look at this game: gameID=85903

Germany and Russia are one and the same, because there is no reason to go relentlessly after someone, without gaining much or enough, exposing your entire back to the biggest power in the game, granting him the win.
28 replies
Open
Bob Genghiskhan (1258 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
Would whoever Turkey was in the Xtra Special Gunboat please stand up?
I mean, waiting a year and a half after everyone else votes cancel because Russia failed to show to add the decisive 6th vote, only when the board starts turning against you, is kind of weak sauce.
3 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
11 Apr 12 UTC
Look, Americans, I don't hate you guys, but
we, the Dutch are cooler.
71 replies
Open
santosh (335 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
More Metagaming Fun
Here's a question that's been bugging me for a while.
4 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2736 D(B))
12 Apr 12 UTC
You know what I hate?
Starting a 1v1 game with Eden and he leaves after 1901.
19 replies
Open
Fasces349 (0 DX)
12 Apr 12 UTC
Coolest Coin Ever?
http://news.yahoo.com/canada-s-newest-coin-glows-in-the-dark.html
A quarter that glows in the dark, depicting a dinosaur in the light, and a glowing version of its skeleton in the dark.

HOW COOL IS THAT?
5 replies
Open
Pete U (293 D)
08 Apr 12 UTC
Who wants a game?
Well, after the last one was spoilt by a CD, I thought I'd try again...
26 replies
Open
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
01 Apr 12 UTC
Vaftrudner's Song of the Day
DAY 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAtUw6lxcis
The Undertones - Teenage Kicks
56 replies
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
12 Apr 12 UTC
Has anyone noticed the URL to the Ghosty's site has changed?
Seems like Google is streamlining its google pages.
1 reply
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
12 Apr 12 UTC
Another Space Race--to Mars?
So, I was thinking, the one nice thing about the Cold War was that NASA got tons of money to just be awesome. People were excited about science and we developed a lot of cool technology. Why can't we have another Space Race? Surely China or India would be up for the challenge.
5 replies
Open
Trooth (561 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
**OFFICIAL** Official official thread
Official.
6 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
12 Apr 12 UTC
Moderators ATTENTION
I was wondering - without insisting on an immediate verdict - whether my email & thread about the sending of screenshots had been taken into consideration? If it is, I'll shut up again, just curious whether it is in the pipeline.
6 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
10 Apr 12 UTC
Human nature vs Human behaviour...
not wanting to divert other threads, i post a here instead... see inside.
39 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
12 Apr 12 UTC
USA ...... top of the League !!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17662973
1 reply
Open
Mujus (1495 D(B))
11 Apr 12 UTC
Mod Language and the F-Word
Topic for discussion--Since we can't mute the moderators, what about instituting a policy that mods at least try to avoid using objectionable language, starting with the F-word?
70 replies
Open
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