That makes sense, especially communication via orders. Huh. I'm too late to join that game but maybe I'll watch it, see how it looks.

Gunboat is DEFINITELY useful for learning about tactics, soft-spot provinces, and the general nuts-and-bolts of the on-the-board stuff. I recommend downloading you some DAIDE and playing a bunch of gunboat games against an AI if you're new. Let's face it, you're not going to be a very good negotiator if you don't know what it is you're negotiating over.

That said, gunboat highlights the necessity of communication by taking away your ability to do it (orders intended to convey information notwithstanding). You WILL hit a point in your gunboat game when you'll say, "man, if only I could convince X to move to Y, we'd run the board together." Use that in your next press game.

The point of gunboat is quite simple. Actions speak louder than words, even in press games, so use those actions and learn to read intent in *every* move all over the board. Russia may be willing to help your France with Germany and England if you can just signal him and he may be signalling you already.

Draugnar Doctrine:
"The point of gunboat is quite simple... Actions speak louder than words"
SantaClausowitz Corollary:
But nobody listens

Draugnar Derivation:
...except to hear what they want to hear.

Interesting ... now you've got me wanting to try it.

Thanks for the responses everybody.

The point of gunboat is that it's a different game and much more fun... for some people, including me. For example because you have to treat opponents as rational people since you know nothing about them whereas it may take take just one message to find out that your neighbour is a complete idiot. My skill of dealing with idiots is atrocious so I preffer my gunboats. Especially in longer phase gunboats, you are basically playing against yourself - what you can come up with is the same thing as what your opponent may come up with. You will seldom be wrong in overestimating your opponent. In press games, this crystal clear idea is convoluted by the presence of words.

Gunboat is a truly dire varient of the game that takes the soul of Diplomacy and pisses all over it. The moves are painfully formulaic, the style of play is so different from the true game that most of what you learn in one form is useless or, even worse, highly misleading when applied to the other, and at the end of the day almost every game is decided by someone who doesn't know a damned thing about gunboat doing something really stupid.

The Gunboat varient is only one step more enjoyable that the infamous Pacifist varient, in which speaking is allowed but moving units is forbidden and the winner is the last player to lose the will to live.

Someone needs a happy pill.

Czech +1.

No one claims that gunboat is true to the original game. But I think it's better than the original game. The diplomacy isn't really what I enjoy, the balance of the tactics is. Gunboat is like seven player chess. It's fantastic.

Alright, anyone want to give some feedback on the game we just finished?

I think it was one of the better games I've played but elected to go for the draw because a) I have a friend coming over soon and b) I didn't have the confidence to drag the game out for another hour in an attempt to solo.

It was fun though - more so than the other live games I've tried.

I also immediately regret the decision but I guess that's a common response.
Couldn't we have at least eliminated Russia?

Turkey was taking too long on his part and Italy allowed him another build......me and France were going to continue to fight so I will not fight Russia at the same time..

Damn England...glad you lost...trying to sneak into denmark like that...then he thinks we can be friends...hmm hmm no sir..

and I couldnt do more about russia before I either had a leverage on Italy, or got to signal some peace to him - neither happened :) I do admit that the russian army in armenia in 06 was a huuuge mistake, which I am still cursing about...

Yea I was thinking that you were afraid if you focused more on Russia you would lose out to Italy..

"The Gunboat varient is only one step more enjoyable that the infamous Pacifist varient, in which speaking is allowed but moving units is forbidden and the winner is the last player to lose the will to live."

ROFL

Oct +3

I simply cannot improve on the masterpiece that Octavious has written. I completely agree on all points. I'd put an extra 500 in your account for it if abge didn't get remod'ed and can catch me ;)

It, along with SantaClausowitz's 'laws' are officially in my profile cause they are too damn funny :)

Seriously Oct... that was the most brilliant and well written critique of gunboat I've ever seen. I have been tempted the past 15 minutes to start a new thread just about it, because it completely aligns with my feelings on gunboat games.

Oh shut up. Gunboats are fun and no one forces you to play gunboat.
Having said that, it's like rolling a damn die almost all of the time playing gunboat. Damn near impossible to win unless you play with idiots. Most end up being drawn or cancel due to CDs.
Having said *that*, gunboats are fun and no once forces you to play gunboat.

Gunboats have influence (granted, less than a normal game, but most gunboats are live and people play like 2 dozen a week) on ghost rating performance. I'd like to see a ghost rating without any gunboats to see how much of a change there would be.
I am not forced to play them (nor do I play them), I am forced to mod them, which I don't mind... but being compared with them in skills? That's where I have issue.

The only way to do compare skills efficiently is to program GR right into the site's code and break it down into categories such as Overall, Live games, Gunboat games, and Classics.

it is programmed from the db, and he can filter (for example, he filters out games that have drawn before... 1903, I believe).

So, can he break down the ratings into those four categories?

you'd have to ask him