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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Durga (1898 D Mod)
01 Nov 17 UTC
(+3)
Thinking about how to improve webdip
See below
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As someone new to the site, this is kind of my observation.

-The interface mechanics are good. Having support to then ftom seems counter intuitive but I'm sure you get used to that.

-The interface aesthetics are bad. All the arrows and Xs in multiple colors are hard to read and the map is too small. I was playing 1 vs. 1 with a guy and I kept just staring at the map and trying to read it. I NMRd twice because I was stumbling with the interface.

-The forums seem strangely political and I was surprised by how little talk about the actual game there was. but as someone else said I don't think that matters a whole lot.

-The website design is TERRIBLE. I had to go to YouTube just to figure out how the interface works. There is a ton of stuff on this site that you can't navigate to from the site, you have to Google it and follow the link. you can't find the FAQ from the homepage. And the design itself looks twenty years old.

- I haven't played a lot of online Diplomacy, but enough to get frustrated with people NMRing. There's nothing quite as frustrating in the game as getting half way through a game and having people quit. Stats on who does it the most and why would definitely be useful.

- Even though I know how to play the game, I like the mentor idea. One thing you could do is solve both the play quality problem and the NMR problem by starting a new category of games called "Mentor Games". You get people you can count on from the site to be mentors and teach people the more advanced parts of the game and at the same time they guarantee that someone will take over if a new player flakes out and drops out because they're losing or their dog died (probably cause they're losing). So then new people to the site can both be monitored a little and get a chance to play in a game they know will be finished. Plus you get to meet people and it is a social game.

In short, the community is great, but the site is hard to learn and speaking as noob— new people suck a lot.
Foxcastle (168 D)
02 Nov 17 UTC
(+1)
I'm also new to this site, and am not a big fan of the interface, but have gotten used to it. Echoing some of what Literary Pugilist said, the map isn't great (floc.net's diplomacy maps were quite good, I thought), and the ordering of "support from X to Y" is strange to me (but again, I got used to it, mostly).

I'd rather have a game pause until NMR is corrected rather than giving neighboring players the chance to basically pillage an unmanned country. The play by email judge I was on before coming here had a grace period which worked well.

I'd like to see orders and the map simultaneously. Even on the full sized map, the arrows and colors and everything can be jumbled and hard to read.
Durga (1898 D Mod)
02 Nov 17 UTC
Thanks for all the input new players! The mods are apparently very busy so any solutions we discuss on this thread should involve very little to no action from them.
Mercy (1691 D)
05 Nov 17 UTC
Thank you DO for making this thread.


A tutoring system sounds great to me, but I am afraid that it wouldn't be practical to organise it at such a large scale. But I am not complaining if people would like to try it.

Something that is maybe easier to implement, and I think will help improve the quality of new players, is making more information better available for new players. I can think of three topics that newer players tend to be unaware about, just because they lack some information.

1. The impact of NMRs on the game and your RR rating. CommanderByron explained this well on page 1 of this discussion:
''I think some more options to prevent NMRs would be fantastic, but more importantly I think a mandatory "tutorial" before a player can enter a game would do wonders to educate new players on the importance of NOT NMRing. When i first started about 4 years ago I had no clue the negative impact NMRing was having on not only my fellow players (I assumed they'd be happy to have me drop out) and also on my potential to join better games. Simply explaining that could do loads for the issue.''

2. How one can look up previous orders and previous messages from other players. Someone recently made a thread explaining that the fact that new players do not automatically know that not all orders are shown on the small map, can have negative impacts on games (threadID=1518904). New players should know that they have to look at the large map to see all orders and should be aware of the Orders and Messages tabs.

3. The Draw option and the fact that there is an unofficial rule that players have to vote for Draw if the game is in a stalemate, and hence the importance of stalemate lines. The unofficial rule of 'if stalemate, then draw' has a huge impact on how games are played (because players will try to force a stalemate to happen), but can't be found anywhere because it is an unofficial rule.

I do not think it is a good idea, though, to let players read all of this before joining a game. I have noticed that the text people first get to see when entering webdiplomacy is quite short. I can understand this, because we want to make joining webdiplomacy 'low-threshold' (I have no idea whether that last word made sense in this context; I had to resort to google translate there) and people might be thrown off (did that last expression make sense..?) if they have to read a wall of text before entering a game. However, this information should be easily available. Perhaps we can make a 'Beginners Guide' that is linked on the intro page and that can easily be found from the main page, and perhaps (if this is not difficult to program) we can send a notification to new players after they have finished 5 phases or so saying 'Have you read the Beginners Guide?' and linking to it.


When reading this thread, I saw a few people suggesting that when someone misses a phase and goes into Civil Disorder, the phase should be extended. This is partially implemented in vDiplomacy. When someone NMRs the very first turn of the game, that player is immediately send into Civil Disorder and the phase gets extended so that anyone can take over the open spot (for half the original bet). It works fantastically well because in this way, no game will get ruined from the beginning because of CD's.

Also, I have a small suggestion about Reliability Rating. I think that the RR system will better reflect a players true reliability if recent NMRs and CD's are weighed heavier than ones in the past. For example, imagine two players that played for three years on the site. One had a few NMRs and CD's in his first year of the site but hasn't missed a phase ever since. The other player has never CD's but consistently NMRs now and then. Their Reliability Ratings are identical. I would prefer to play with the first player and not with the second one, and I think many players would agree with me. One way to implement this is, for example, by making the last 1001st to the 2000th phases weigh only half as much as the last 1000 phases, by making the last 2001th to 4000th phases weigh only one quarter as much, the last 4001 to 8000th only one eight as much, etc, for determining RR, and something similar for games played/CD's. This system would be more forgiving, too (and obviously someone with my name would be in favor of such a forgiving system!). If people know that, if they start playing reliably, their RR will converge to 100 with a decently fast rate, that is an extra motivation to indeed go start playing more reliable. Maybe some people will critique my suggestion by pointing out that the RR of players will become too high if this is implemented, but to that I say that all is relative and that if this is the case, they can create games with even higher RR requirements.
MajorMitchell (1016 D)
06 Nov 17 UTC
Well done President Eden. Lobbed in a smoking PPSC grenade & got away with it untouched. I make no comment apart from noting that my position on PPSC should be well known.
Gee I didn't think NMRs were such a huge issue. I obviously have a minority view on them, I recently posted in the NMRs & CDs thread started by literary pugilist on those, so anyone who wants to read a dissenting opinion, it's in that thread.
Summarised..partly... Unpredictability and Anarchic events create opportunities.

Positive suggestion..a pleasant surprise ???
How about having comments threads for some games ? Obviously not grubby old gunboat shenanigans. My suggestion is that players who want to do Commentary have to apply to be "Recognised Commentators". They have to meet certain requirements, have to have completed say 100 games at WebDiplomacy, be of a certain ranking or get a dispensation on that from a screening committee. Other requirements can be suggested.
They agree to certain rules, eg no use of offensive language.
Other rules can be suggested.

Players setting up games of the type it is decided are " commentator allowed" can decide to invite a commentary by starting a forum thread when their game starts, or by sending a PM to the Commentary Committee, of whatever group we decide to have supervising the commentators & Comments thread.

I recently did a bit of commentary on the ex Mods game..#f***ghugboat.. It was a public press only game & it was a cracker. The way ATC played Austria was a revelation, and the dynamic duo Goldfinger & Captainmeme had England and France.

There are some cracker games played by the elite players, high stakes etc. Publicising them with a comments thread will encourage spectators.
I wonder what the statistics on spectating are ..How popular is it ? What types of games attract the most spectators ?
MajorMitchell (1016 D)
06 Nov 17 UTC
What is the greatest number of spectators attracted to a single game ?
captainmeme (846 D Mod)
06 Nov 17 UTC
The old endless World Cup game had 76 spectators at one point.
Jamiet99uk (141 D)
06 Nov 17 UTC
Thanks to DO for creating this thread.

A few observations and comments from me.

First of all I agree with VillageIdiot, StevenC, and President Eden (and one other gentleman whose opinion is known) that we should bring back PPSC.

Second of all, DO and others have mentioned that in the FTF community some good players think webDip is one of the worst Dip sites. Which site do they like the best, and why?

Third, I agree NMRs are still a problem. I seem to recall that Reliability Rating was touted as a way of reducing the problem of NMRs by allowing reliable players to keep trash players out of their games. Why hasn't that worked?
captainmeme (846 D Mod)
06 Nov 17 UTC
(+1)
In my experience, the FTF community prefers the old judge sites like the Pouch judges, BOUNCED, Stabberfou, etc. More recently Chris Martin has been dragging them kicking and screaming into the 21st century by making everyone use Spark for comms and Backstabbr for games.

I don't think much of the FTF community will ever really integrate into communities like webDip & PlayDip, though. Most of the online world has quite a lot of respect for FTF pros, but that's very much a one-way relationship - the vast majority of FTF players look down on the modern open-to-all sites as casual, and don't really consider stuff like GR to be worth anything. They play games privately within their own community (the spark group) and anything outside of the Spark group is viewed as a sea of casuals, NMRs, CDs and low-quality games.

I'm hoping people like DemonOverlord and Carebear are making enough of an impact on the FTF community to change that view, but I don't think it'll change for a long time.
Durga (1898 D Mod)
06 Nov 17 UTC
Actually, having just gone to Carnage I've been asked quite a lot of questions on how to get more online players out to f2f events
VillageIdiot (6555 D)
06 Nov 17 UTC
(+1)
A universal truth I’ve come to accept is that pretty much every person I’ve ever met loves the interface they first started playing on and think the other sites interfaces are “ugly” and “hard to manage”. People just instinctively prefer what they’re used to. PlayDippers love PlayDip, WebDippers love WebDip, and (i presume) FTF’ers prefer whatever best mimics FTF game play. It’s not worth trying to adapt towards, familiarity biases don’t necessarily equate to best.
ghug (5046 D (B))
06 Nov 17 UTC
(+2)
Is there a centralized listing of f2f events? Linking to it on the site somewhere could be pretty helpful.
Valis2501 (2057 D (G))
07 Nov 17 UTC
Not quite your answer, but here you go.

Cascadia in Vancouver, Jan 27-28
TotalCon in Boston, Feb 23-25
Whipping in San Jose, 3/31-4/1
CodCon in Chicago, April 14-15
WeaselMoot in Chicago, Sept 1-2
Tempest in a Teapot (WDC!!) in DC, Oct 5-7
Liberty Cup in Philly, August(?)
Massacre in Boston, Late Summer(?)
Carnage in Killington, Nov 2-4

Currently maintained by word of mouth at F2F tournaments and social media exclusively used by and invite-only by F2F players. I am aware and appreciate the bootstrap problem. There's the r/diplomacy thread and a diplomacy blog that has, like, half of them at any point in time.
bo_sox48 (4499 D Mod (G))
07 Nov 17 UTC
We can easily put up information about upcoming face to face events on the site banner when registration opens for a couple of days. Someone from the face to face community or an organizer of the tournament could come on here and post a forum thread with a URL to follow and we can put that on the home page.
Valis2501 (2057 D (G))
07 Nov 17 UTC
Forgot one of the biggest and best!

Cascadia in Vancouver, Jan 27-28
TotalCon in Boston, Feb 23-25
Whipping in San Jose, 3/31-4/1
CodCon in Chicago, April 14-15
DixieCon in Chapel Hill, May 25-27
WeaselMoot in Chicago, Sept 1-2
Tempest in a Teapot (WDC!!) in DC, Oct 5-7
Liberty Cup in Philly, August(?)
Massacre in Boston, Late Summer(?)
Carnage in Killington, Nov 2-4
Durga (1898 D Mod)
07 Nov 17 UTC
Who wants to sponsor me for all of them
brainbomb (474 D)
07 Nov 17 UTC
Two girls one cup. Jan 27-29
Four Priests one Horse Feb 32-25
Two nuns one Jar 3/31-5/15
One stoner big bong 4/20
Yoyo playing with a fidget spinner Chi Town Sept 1-2
Valis sinking a submarine Oct 5-7
Abgemachts wedding again (August?)
Drunken Barn ftf with Ron Jeremy Nov 2-5


77 replies
MajorMitchell (1016 D)
03 Nov 17 UTC
Refugees.. Does Uganda treat refugees better than many wealthy Nations ?
More refugees from South Sudan entered Uganda in the last 12 months than entered Europe. Uganda allows them to enter, to work, gives many a small plot of land to farm. To appease locals in regional areas where refugees settle the Government allocates 30% of aid to local communities. My own Nation, Australia, a relatively wealthy nation treats some refugees well, but others with harsh treatment, incarceration in detention camps.
28 replies
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abgemacht (840 D (G))
04 Nov 17 UTC
(+3)
Carnage Con
Well it only took 8 hours, but placed second as Turkey in Game 1 Board 1
26 replies
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2ndWhiteLine (3375 D (B))
14 Aug 17 UTC
New ex-mod game
PM for info. Non-anon public press. Former mods preferred.
72 replies
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captainmeme (846 D Mod)
17 Oct 17 UTC
1v1 Showdown - The Grand Final
110 Players. 500 Games. 2 Finalists.

After 10 months, it’s time to decide the Showdown’s victor.
35 replies
Open
TrPrado (456 D Mod)
05 Nov 17 UTC
Paradise Papers
I wonder what places will actually be affected by the revelations.
16 replies
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leon1122 (101 D)
05 Nov 17 UTC
(+1)
Sad! Young girl taken to court for racial abuse after accusing Arab man of sex abuse.
http://archive.fo/GoHqE
27 replies
Open
WyattS14 (100 D)
02 Nov 17 UTC
Thinking about how to improve myself
I'm thinking maybe start a workout routine?
Maybe read some philosophy? Any recommendations?
I could skip the workout routine.. Maybe I'll just start eating healthier
21 replies
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Socrates Dissatisfied (1727 D)
06 Nov 17 UTC
(+4)
Demon Overload is the Kindest Person
Just wanted to say the truth we all already knew
10 replies
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ZS (211 D)
02 Nov 17 UTC
Surrounded in a gunboat
If you get surrounded by 2 major powers and they can't really get to each other without going through you and you don't have enough units for a stalemate line, are you pretty much done for?
6 replies
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Verming (269 D)
03 Nov 17 UTC
What happens if....
....a player does a NMR on a turn where he has to chose a unit to disband..?
6 replies
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SkiingCougar (953 D)
06 Nov 17 UTC
Substitute for turkey in live game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=209772
Emailing mods for a unpause, does anyone want to take over turkey while we're at it?
2 replies
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jmo1121109 (3797 D Mod)
05 Nov 17 UTC
Remember Remember...
the 5th of November
3 replies
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MamaLama (212 D)
05 Nov 17 UTC
Germany Solo for 31500?
In the Biggest Game Ever... Germany currently has 14 SCs and looks to be in a good position to solo
2 replies
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Literary Pugilist (291 D)
04 Nov 17 UTC
NMRs and Civil Disorder
I'm new here can someone please explain how the NMR and CD rules work here. How many times can a power NMR before they go into CD. What happens to the game if one of the powers goes CD? Is it canceled, paused? What happens to your bet? Do you just get it back?
9 replies
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HBbuc (113 D)
03 Nov 17 UTC
Join chaos game
Really fun, please join!!!

http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=32916
(paste whole like not just GameID)
1 reply
Open
peterwiggin (15100 D Mod (S))
01 Nov 17 UTC
(+18)
Mod team announcement
peterwiggin has agreed to step down from the moderator team.
29 replies
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Foxcastle (168 D)
04 Nov 17 UTC
Are countries assigned randomly?
New to this site here, so sorry if this is answered elsewhere that I didn't find. Are countries assigned randomly when a game starts? (I'm noticing in the Championship Belt Game Series that xorxes always plays Austria and captainmeme always plays France, but have not found any setting for choosing a country or assigning preferences or anything.)
7 replies
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brainbomb (474 D)
04 Nov 17 UTC
Uber is kind of cool
So, I dont actually plan to spend money. But I downloaded this cool app called uber. I think its like, taxi cabs or toy cars or something. But they move. They wiggle around and travel places on this cool map that looks a little like real life. I watched this one car strolling down a highway. This is neat. How do I take over one of these cartoon car thingys
7 replies
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zultar (3900 D Mod (P))
29 Oct 17 UTC
(+6)
Welcoming back Jamiet
Jamiet has agreed to follow site rules and has been unbanned. Welcome back, Jamiet.
89 replies
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KansasBoyd (25 D X)
02 Nov 17 UTC
Hiliary rigged her nomination
Former interim DNC Chairwoman Donna Brazile has come out exposing the Clinton campaign of taking over the DNC prior to her getting the nomination as the party's candidate which gave Clinton the control over the party's finances, strategy and all the money raised.

42 replies
Open
brainbomb (474 D)
02 Nov 17 UTC
Thinking about how to improve America
Socialism, Communism, Authorotarian overthrow of the wealthy and redistribute it to the eternal poverty stricken forgotten workers.
29 replies
Open
R3dox (261 D)
02 Nov 17 UTC
Incomplete orders on the small preview map are a problem.
Not all orders (most notably support orders) are shown on the small preview map of a game and, especially in Gunboat, this is pretty problematic.
6 replies
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chluke (8515 D (G))
31 Oct 17 UTC
webDiplomacy Grand Slam!
Has anyone completed the webDiplomacy Grand Slam?
8 replies
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KingCyrus (512 D)
31 Oct 17 UTC
John McCain
Tonight, I had the honor of listening to John McCain in one of his last public addresses.
22 replies
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brainbomb (474 D)
20 Oct 17 UTC
(+3)
Mafia XXXII Official Sign-up Thread
Join Tom Bombadil and myself for the 32nd Webdip Mafia game. Starts Wed NOV. 1. See inside for glory and honor
183 replies
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Smokey Gem (194 D)
27 Oct 17 UTC
7 Australian politicians Removed form parliment.
7 politicians were found to be dual citizeb=ns and have been elected including the Deputy Prime Minister and the depetu leader of the national party. 2 Ministers..5 senators..
23 replies
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Ogion (4388 D)
31 Oct 17 UTC
Yet another (kind of gross) thought experiment (GOT Spoiler)
So, when Trump gets impeached and removed...
57 replies
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Randomizer (80 D)
01 Nov 17 UTC
Criminal Friends of Trump
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/31/politics/manafort-3-passports/index.html

Former Trump friend Manafort has 3 different US passports under his own name and at least one under a fake name that's he's used to travel and possibly move money. The first to be indicted and a step up the ladder of Republican lies about what was happening during the election campaign.
27 replies
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grahamso1 (1156 D)
31 Oct 17 UTC
Detailed rules for a game
I am in a game and one player has either held all his units or been absent for 7 consecutive phases (!)
Is there a way to see for the game I am in what the detailed set up is?
6 replies
Open
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