Universal morality? What's that, some minimun standards like freedom of religions (if they don't involve human sacrifice) freedom of speech (and the freedom to ignore the speech of other) the right to self-defence; the requirement to help others in need (call an ambulance when you see an accident, etc)

Is this the kind of thing you don't want laws to promote? Or are laws just for govt spending decisions, like the one that authorised NASA to send an extra shuttle up to the ISS with a special experiment... Can't remember the name, but it's basically a detector like the ones they use in CERN but instead of a particle collider they are using space (ie cosmic rays) Yes a specific bill was passed through the US senate and congress to allow this... What a fucking waste of their time... In other countries the representatives of the people form what is called a 'government' and they are expected to 'govern' - then they authorise budgets and agencies decide how to spend it... Sheesh...

Sorry, that was @santa...

bump

@jece Jump down throat...

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MWAHAHAHAHAHA

yawn

Santa doesn't want universal morality - the kind that is engrained in any properly functioning human being....he wants to impose his own twisted, jack-ass-backward authoritarian leftist morality, in which you take from the fruits of one man's labor to give to the man who won't work for himself.


As for "universal morality"....watch children at play -- like really small children just starting to move about. Children are born with basic compassion and demonstrate it. They also understand fairness and greed intrinsically, A chile who has his toys taken away from him by another child that already has his own toys inately understands that it is unfair and will express that feeling. A child with toys will also be more prone to share with a child that has no toys versus a child with toys, etc.

It's only when they start getting "educated" that things really start to get fucked up...when demented versions of "fairness" are taught that go against human nature, for example...

no idea what the fuck ora was on about a month ago.

Then you have krellin saying anything a child does implies universal morality. Funny from a guy who claims to have children. I guess shitting in our pants is the height of morality because a newborn does it. Morality, from the beginning of the term came with education. Seperating morality from education and saying education is antithetical to morality is something that only a drunk idiot like krellin would propose.

But of course, that was off topic inf the first place

the point that JECE continues to not address is that circumcision is an action that goes back thousands of years, and is important to the identity of my people. Yet despite societies allowance of people to destroy their children in several different ways without consequence, JECE for some reason decided to champion this cause.

and continues to dredge it up for no fucking reason

@santa - when you say things like 'circumcision ....is important to the identity of my people' are you saying that ONLY circumcised males can be Jews? Also are you aware that some Jews are against circumcision?

@Maniac - Children to secular jewish families who do not practice their tradition usually don't see their jewish identity as a critical issue. And even if they still have some connection - their children almost for certain don't. It could be seen in pre-WW2 Germany and it can be seen in western countries such as USA today. If we are to judge the Jewish self-identification by the events of the last 150 years we can clearly see that Reformic and Conservative movements have a great difficulty in uniting their followers and passing their beliefs to the next generation.
Judaism has a rather clear set of laws which states how one should act in most everday condition. These laws were transferred and hardly changed for ages. Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews practices are almost the same despite the fact that the diaspora had existed for 2000 years in different parts of the world.
A Jew who rises today and objects circumcision has no religious or traditional practice to back him up. And therefore one can assume that he does it not because he tries to get closer to Judaism as it is but to further himself away. I believe that it should be considered when commenting that "are you aware that some Jews are against circumcision?"

@aureliano - thx for the clarification, but I'm still not 100% sure how uncircumcised Jews are regarded. Am I to understand it that a child with a Jewish mother is a Jew as are people who convert to the religion? Those people remain jews unless they renouce their religion. Are you saying that Jews who do not get circumcised or don't approve of it are not Jews, or are you saying they are lesser Jews, or what?

As I understand it Catholics who use contraception are still Catholics even though their practices do not conform with. Central tenant of their religion.

Jews can become such by two ways: Either their mother is Jewish or they chose to convert to Judaism. Once one becomes a Jew there is no return - he will be considered a Jew even if he himself denies it.
Naturally - if a Jew chooses to marry a non jewish woman his children will not be Jews even if they will consider otherwise (unless they will convert - which means circumcision among other things.)
Of course that is the traditional orthodox point of view. I havn't heard of conservatives who have a different opinion, but I won't be surprised if some ultra-reformic rabbies will consider a Jew pretty much anyone who wants to be called one.