Yeah, I'd like to highlight the key words: "Illegal Immigrants"

And by far, the last thing we need is more Latinos in this country.

Look up the requirements:

NO felonies...
Entered the country at 15 or younger...
In the country 5 years or longer...
Are currently working...
Graduated HS and/or served in the US Military...
Younger than 30.

That seems fair and not targeted at rewarding felonies to ME...

This is for teens who came to this country, are in college and working, and thus are in the middle of their lives and can't file for citizenship for risk of being deported and losing college and work and all that they've built in their life.

This isn't giving them citizenship, just deferring deportation so they CAN finish up college/work and THEN, perhaps, via further action, apply for citizenship when the system's been fixed, as BOTH parties have admitted it's broken and needs fixing.



Seems fair to ME, I know people personally who fall under those guidelines, and I, personally, am happy for them and know they'll be happy, and with good reason.

These friends of mine work long hours, look after their families, go to college...they DESERVE to be able to stay if they want to work for it and go to school and succeed and be good Americans...

That seems deserving of at least a chance to stay, wouldn't you say?

Mexicans rule! Anybody who wants to work hard to earn a living is fine by me. America became great because people were given opportunity which allowed hard-working and creative people to rise to the top. Excluding a bunch of people so the lazy-shits have less competition is backward. Think, the fall of the Roman Empire.

"Yeah, I'd like to highlight the key words: "Illegal Immigrants""

Everyone not Native American is an "Illegal Immigrant."

The only difference is we white illegals have the guns, money, power, and "Manifest Destiny" excuse to make it "OK."

"And by far, the last thing we need is more Latinos in this country."

Quit being an eye-rolling wasted of space of a troll.

Really King? Really?

"...and THEN, perhaps, via further action, apply for citizenship when the system's been fixed, as BOTH parties have admitted it's broken and needs fixing."

But they're not gonna do anything about it. No one in Congress actually gives a shit about immigration reform.

Big step in the right direction, but more needs to happen (and that more isn't happening isn't the fault of the president, to be sure). I like it!

Great decision. Obama and his administration have made a lot of great decisions that have been hampered by the shithole seat he was thrown into in 2008, but this one is really good. It puts America back into the world's eyes as an accepting nation again like it was intended to be.

And now, according to CNN--on live right now--there are hundreds marching peacefully right here in LA in support of this...

Very nice sight to see, and pretty fast for that to happen within the hour and all...

Very nice :D

This is a textbook case of dereliction of duty and grounds for impeachment. Obama is responsible for enforcing the laws of the land, and this is just another failure to do his duty.

I don't care if they crossed when they were kids. I don't care if they're being productive. I don't care if they are attending college. I want to know how they got into the military. I don't care if they have a job. The fact is that when they crossed the border without permission, which is the worst form of trespassing and a slap to the face of US sovereignty.

We need to deport or imprison every illegal alien immediately, commence construction of a border fence, and deploy the National Guard on the border.
__________

On most social issues like gay marriage and prayer in school, I am fairly moderate and willing to compromise.

On issues like illegal immigration, guns, and abortion, I will not compromise. Anything less than immediate deportation and border reinforcement is unacceptable.

umm, being an Illegal makes you a guilty of a felony.

Until they fix the actual border problem, then no amnesty.

The world is not paying for them, we are. So I dont give two bloody $hits what the world thinks, unless they plan on paying the damn bill for the problem

At THIS MOMENT, I am paying for it.

gay marriage, dont care either. Prayer in school, meh.

The word 'illegal' continues to be ignored.

And for the person that said we are all illegals except the native Americans, THEY TO came over here from somewhere else, and we are not asking to deport people who are here legally, we are askign to deport people who are here ILLEGALLY, regardless of country of origin


Seal the border, then we can talk.

Obama, Bush, Clinton, ...every damn one of them need to be thrown in jail for not fixing this problem

And what of the millions who flee Latin American poverty, violence, and/or despotism to get into the US...

The system is hopelessly broken, and when you're starving or under fire or both, you don't have time to wait around for months or years to get in.

What of them?

Agreed, Stressedlines. Obama should be impeached for this, Bush should be put on trial for Iraq and Clinton should be put on trial for perjury.

The argument that we are all illegals is completely invalid. America was not yet a country when white people first arrived.

@ obi

"And what of the millions who flee Latin American poverty, violence, and/or despotism to get into the US..."

I understand their desperation, but there's not enough of America to go around. They can get in line behind everyone who's trying to get in legally. America is much more than a dumping ground for third-world refugees.

There's clinging to the words "illegal" and "alien" to justify a complete lack of justice, compassion, and logic and boot hundreds of thousands who came to this country as children, have grown up in it, are employed, are going to college...ARE CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS OF SOCIETY...

And then there's allowing that sense of compassion, justice, and logic to do what Obama has done--work jointly with the DHS to come up with a temporary, 2-year amnesty for a select group of immigrants that came here with the intent of fleeing oppression, the American Dream, or both, and now allows them to work towards greater things in American society, possibly see a path-road to Citizenship if Obama wins, and in the meantime allows them to live their lives and work and attend college WITHOUT FEAR.

Seems far to me.

"I understand their desperation, but there's not enough of America to go around. They can get in line behind everyone who's trying to get in legally. America is much more than a dumping ground for third-world refugees."

I agree--it's the Land of Opportunity for these people.

If these people have braved hundreds of miles to get here...
If these people have braved dangers and the thread of death to get here...
If these people have sought and gained and maintained employment...
If these people have sought education...

If they are all of this, which this group of immigrants are--

FAR from treating them as refuse from a dumping ground, THEY are as true an American as I am.



What makes someone more of an American, Gunfighter, Stressedlines?

Merely being lucky enough to have been born here...

Or to have braved hundreds of miles, hardships, hunger, poverty, war, sought employment, sought education, and have worked hard to come to America, never taking the opportunities of this country for granted?

Which group are the truer Americans?

@Stressedlines How are you paying for it? If people come in and work, they pay taxes, they help pay for the system. People are NOT sneaking over the border for our "generous" welfare system (Europe has probably got the problem there). They are coming here to work. They provide a service. The business community wants illegal immigrants here. Cheap labor, and scared to death of being deported so you can totally abuse them if you want.

I get tired of this "we're paying for them" crap. If we are paying for anyone, it's the lazy shit LEGAL americans who don't want to work. It's the me-first Americans who don't want to pay for their health insurance and then still go to the emergency room when they get sick. It's the greedy companies that don't want to pay their fair share for all the infrastructure (roads, internet) and protection (police, fire) that is provided to them from the government and makes it possible for them to make their money.

FIX THE BORDER FIRST.

Please, Illegals kill more Americans every year than we lost in 10 yars COMBINED in iraq/Afghanistan.

Dont feed me this "contributing members of society" as we have THOUSANDS of illegal gang members all over the damn place.

They exported their crime, poverty and lack of educatio to us.

Sure, many work hard, and still cheat the system (yes, they are cheating the tax system a lot, it is all over the news)

They go to the ERs, for a sniffle, we pay, they go to our schools, we pay,. they hit someone without having Car insurance or a DL, we pay thru higher rates.

I can go on forever.

Nobody has any compassion for us, why the HELL do I have to have any for them?

Gunfighter is right,
millions did it right. They did not. Get the HELL in line.

when an illegal hits someone without insurance, ALL of our rates go up.

When they go to the ER for their mediical issues, OURinsurance goes up, or the government eats it.

And many do NOT pay taxes, and they are a net loss across the board. Often they get cash.

Speik, defend them if you want, they are not here legally.

And before a single one gets amnesty, they need to fix the border problem.

I am not asking them to do anything, but what they are SUPPOSE TO BE DOING.

The law clearly states, they are to DEPORT ILLEGALS. They are giving amnesty to voters, nothing else.

Compassion my left nut.

The way to REALLY attack the problem, is to attack the companies hiring them, and hurt them a lot, but the government is a joke.

Bush sucked at it, Obama sucks at it.

@ obi

"And then there's allowing that sense of compassion, justice, and logic to do what Obama has done"

I'm not seeing much justice or logic here. Justice typically involves the punishment and/or rehabilitation of criminals. Waving their punishment for breaking the law isn't justice at all. And is it logical to allow them to hold jobs when 8-10% of the nation is unemployed? And don't give me any horseshit about them working jobs that Americans won't work at. If anyone is out of a job for 6 or more months, they'll do just about anything.

I'll tell you who the true Americans are. Because not every American citizen is a true American in my opinion. I want to clarify that right now. I'll admit that even hardworking illegals are better people than the lazy unemployed fatasses sitting in their mother's basement.

True Americans are people who believe and fight for the ideals and principles upon which this great nation was founded. People of good moral character and honor who do what is right even when no one is looking.

It is not right for them to cross the border and trespass on our soil. I don't care why they came to America. If they do not have permission, then they should be sent back to wherever they came from and get in line.

"never taking the opportunities of this country for granted?"

Oh, but they did take the opportunities for granted. By not paying taxes, by being here without permission, they are taking advantage of the land that many American men fought and died for.

I am not a xenophobe. If they come over legally, and they make an effort to learn our language, culture, and customs, then they are welcome to stay. I welcome them as fellow opportunity seekers.

At the very least, we must screen these people. How many disease-carrying people are we letting in? How many cartel members are we letting in? How many al-Qaeda agents are we letting in? The open border and unchecked immigration is a huge hole in our national security and must be filled. And don't fucking kid yourself. The world is as dangerous as it ever was.

*waiving* their punishment

"I get tired of this "we're paying for them" crap. If we are paying for anyone, it's the lazy shit LEGAL americans who don't want to work."

+1! Well said!

"FIX THE BORDER FIRST"

And jsut leave those lives in limbo while we take months or years to do it?

They're working, they're employed, they're in college...they have LIVES...

You can't just string them out while they're doing all that, this gives Obama and Congress time to fix the border AND the immigration process without having to worry about these 800,000 Dreamers...


"Please, Illegals kill more Americans every year than we lost in 10 yars COMBINED in iraq/Afghanistan."

Statistics, links, or I'm calling BS.

"Dont feed me this "contributing members of society" as we have THOUSANDS of illegal gang members all over the damn place."

Way to generalize an entire race of people by the actions of a few thousand.

Stressed, you attribute a bunch of problems to illegals that are much bigger problem with the LEGALS in our country. I think you are being quite simplistic. You think our system has problems so we can fix it by picking on some marginalized part of society. Bullshit. You could kick out every illegal alien in this country right now and we would still have people (lots of people) going to the ER without insurance. We'd still have lots of people driving uninsured and getting in accidents. We'd also have lots of farms going out of business. Lots of construction companies going on hard times. And we'd lose a lot of hardworking, productive, enterprising individuals that could improve our society (the ones here now have proved they are motivated and enterprising just by getting in).

Your argument about, "they are not LEGAL and that is the end of it", is quite simplistic. What Obama is trying to do is make a bunch of them LEGAL. So now that they are going to be LEGAL, I guess that stupid argument goes *poof*, eh?

Yeah, Stressed. I appreciate the assistance, but you need to refocus your arguments. Focus on the fact that they violated the law to get here and they have not been checked for disease or undesirable affiliations.

We need to secure the border and deport all illegals at the same time. Make a dramatic statement that America will not compromise her sovereignty for "compassion" or "justice".

"I'm not seeing much justice or logic here. Justice typically involves the punishment and/or rehabilitation of criminals. Waving their punishment for breaking the law isn't justice at all."

Laws aren't always just.

The current immigration laws are not just.

I don't see the justice of implementing a penalty based just off of a piece of paper when it goes against every natural inclination of justice when these kids are brought here when they were minors, and were under the charge of their parent, and work and go to college and serve in the military...

As the President just said (who WAS that who kept shouting at Obama? SOMEONE is getting their press pass revoked! Who DOES that, I hated bush, but you're quiet while the President speaks, that's just how it's done...this isn't England with a PM, if we're going that route, go all the way and give us the entertainment of Questioning Hour as well) these kids are

"Americans in every way except one--on paper."

And I'm sorry--but this was a nation founded on truths that were self-evident...

NOT on blind bureaucratic adherence to laws that don't make logical sense.

"And is it logical to allow them to hold jobs when 8-10% of the nation is unemployed? And don't give me any horseshit about them working jobs that Americans won't work at. If anyone is out of a job for 6 or more months, they'll do just about anything."

Well, I'll ignore that "horseshit" about them working jobs other Americans won't...because I disagree with your calling it that, and disagree with your statement, they DO work jobs most other Americans won't work.

To take the first part of that:

As someone who is currently unemployed save for self-employment via freelance tutoring (though as I'll be entering Cal State Northridge, I hope to get an on-campus job this semester) I can honestly say...

If those people are more talented than I...
If they are more qualified for a job...
If they are better at interviewing for a job...

I am a proponent of MERIT above all else--if their SKILLS *MERIT* that job more than I...

Then they have every right to that job, and I don't care where they're from or what their immigration status is.

"True Americans are people who believe and fight for the ideals and principles upon which this great nation was founded. People of good moral character and honor who do what is right even when no one is looking."

The illegal immigrants I know would fit that bill.

I daresay many of these covered by this would as well.

"It is not right for them to cross the border and trespass on our soil. I don't care why they came to America. If they do not have permission, then they should be sent back to wherever they came from and get in line."

We can cross the Atlantic...

But they can't cross the Rio Grande?

We didn't heed when the Native Americans used those very words of yours against us as we spread over their land...and you have the audacity, as the descendant of illegal immigrants yourself, to fling it back in the face of the latest batch of Americans craving the American Dream?

At Stressed and Gunfight: about half, perhaps more, "illegal" immigrants actually have not committed a crime. Overstaying a visa or, like these people, being brought into the country while a minor, is not a crime, much less a felony. It is a civil offense. I literally cannot imagine how a reasonable person can be so upset about the federal government taking steps to reduce prosecutions and persecutions of people who are guilty of nothing worse than something like a noise violation or public intoxication.

I'm reading the comments of Yahoo users under the article. A great example of a lynch mob.

Also, the modern concept of sovereignty is a construction of kings and emperors who didn't want people to stop them from abusing religious minorities. It's probably a practical necessity, the same way that prisons and guns are practical necessities, but none of those are things to be celebrated.

Don't get upset about violations of sovereignty. Get upset because people think they have the authority to interfere with my rights to do business with, live with, marry, or otherwise interact with any other consenting adult, citizen or not.

Obi, I understand defending a politician when he does the indefensible. Really. I've done it myself, and only admitted later that the acts were not really defensible. So I know what you're probably going through.

But please. Let's ignore the decision not to enforce immigration laws. OK. Maybe that's arguably OK, even if it's out there. Are you really OK with the executive unilaterally setting up a new program (work permits) that explicitly goes against the system set up by Congress, which explicitly has the power to define the laws about immigration?

Before you rush to tell me that you don't care anything about the Constitution and it's hundreds of years old, etc., please think back carefully to the arguments you and your friends were making during the Bush years, when HE was doing things without Congressional approval, or with tenuous Congressional approval. Now tell me again: are you really OK with a world where the executive just makes up whatever laws he wants to enforce and enforces them, without Congress's say-so?

(Note that I am NOT asking about whether you think this is a good policy. I think it may well be the policy that Congress SHOULD adopt).

@ obi - I've been going at it for about an hour now. This is my last response for a few hours.

"The current immigration laws are not just.

I don't see the justice of implementing a penalty based just off of a piece of paper when it goes against every natural inclination of justice when these kids are brought here when they were minors, and were under the charge of their parent, and work and go to college and serve in the military..."

How are they not just? If you are in the country without authorization from the proper authorities, you go back. Period. No exceptions. How is a law like that unjust? It *would* be unjustified for the immigrants who went through the process of becoming a legal resident and eventually a citizen and have the same status as a common trespasser, all based on an unconstitutional political power play by the president.

"but this was a nation founded on truths that were self-evident..."

Yes. And I find it truthfully self-evident that crossing the border is a crime that must not go unpunished.

"Well, I'll ignore that "horseshit" about them working jobs other Americans won't...because I disagree with your calling it that, and disagree with your statement, they DO work jobs most other Americans won't work."

Well, we won't know for sure unless they are removed from those jobs. There are plenty of American citizens that would love to have a menial job. And if they aren't willing to have a menial job, then they deserve to be unemployed. Picking vegetables and cleaning hotel rooms should not be beneath anyone.

"The illegal immigrants I know would fit that bill. I daresay many of these covered by this would as well."

Really? Last time I checked, criminals do not have good moral character. Breaking the law is not right. I know I'm being pretty legalistic here, but I fail to see how America's immigration laws are unjust.

"We didn't heed when the Native Americans used those very words of yours against us as we spread over their land...and you have the audacity, as the descendant of illegal immigrants yourself, to fling it back in the face of the latest batch of Americans craving the American Dream?"

That is a double standard, obi. You can't compare the 1600s with the modern day. The first European settlers tamed a wild, uncivilized land and built a country. That country, the United States of America, is now a sovereign country and as such has the right to assert its borders and deport illegal aliens. And I am not the descendant of illegal immigrants. My ancestors legally emigrated to the United States of America in the 1800s. And "the latest batch" aren't Americans yet. If they are craving the American dream, then why are they disobeying and hiding from the American authorities? If they are craving the American dream, then why don't they go back to wherever they came from and try to get in legally?

Your arguments have no legal or moral merit and are based on the most foolishly humanistic philosophy I have ever had the displeasure of seeing.