Not all women are like that; just like all men don't expect women to stay at home and take care of the children.

I "stand up" for hot women all the time.

*facepalm* I should of seen that comment coming.

I don't think you need to trip about it.

Chivalry is not only dying, it *should* die for the reasons you are using.

However, you kind of have to pick which side of the fence you're on. If you want to be on the egalitarian, no chivalry side, you've got to sniff out hidden sexism in your own actions and stamp it out, as well as stand up for yourself if someone is sexist towards you.

One quick easy thing is to stop calling women "chicks." Putin33 was actually the first person to call me out on "calling women after infant chickens," so, credit where credit is due here - he's right.

Think of a female or group of females and before you call them something think "if these were all males what would I call them?" Make sure that whatever word you use is the female equivalent of this. It can be easy to forget but for instance, why do you suppose we call women all the way up to their mid-thirties, or even beyond "girls" whereas boys becomes "guys" and very quickly "men" by the time they're entering high school?

If you see what I mean by that anyway. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're a just person Riphen and non-aggressively just pointing this out, not attacking you personally.

Or you can take the other road and just be sexist and cover it up with "chivalry," which is also sexist. Lol. Your choice.

I stand up for anyone EXCEPT people I know, lol

and fat people

I'm sometimes called a gentleman. It annoys me a little bit every time it happens because of that connotation (that men need to, say, open the door for women). I just try to be nice/polite to people, not particularly to women. I guess I'm just more of a feminist than most women, but stuff like what Riphen mentioned annoys me.

It annoys me too and I'm female.

Riphen: And Thucydides is right, ha ha. If you really believe what you are saying, you shouldn't be using the word 'chick'. But of course if a 'girl' calls you out on that I guess you could always just chastise her by reminding her that you're more of a feminist than she is. ;-)

I hold the door open for men and women. It's just a courtesy. If someone got mad at me I'd be more than happy to let the door slam him/her in the face though :)

How about everyone show each other the same sort of respect and let the whole gender thing go away. No reason why men have to be nicer to women. It something I've never understood. Mind you, I try to be a polite person in general.

Additionally, I find it incredibly stupid that people assume so much out of holding a door. I'm not holding the door because I don't think you can open a door for yourself, dipshit, just like I'm not holding the base of a ladder because I think you're incapable of balancing on a ladder. I swear to God people see Trojan horses in everything these days and it really just reinforces my natural inclination toward misanthropically refusing to help anybody with anything out of sheer spite.

Like... really. Is it honestly asking too much for people who get upset about shit like that to stop for a second and think "Oh, hmm, maybe he's doing that for me because he's being nice" instead of "HE MUST BE DOING SOMETHING KIND FOR ME BECAUSE HE THINKS I'M POWERLESS TO HELP MYSELF"?

For some people it is. Then again there are those, both male and female, who just expect people to automatically give them treatment like that and are shocked when it doesn't happen. It enough to make a person get a headache some days.

President Eden: Speaking of holding the door open, I don't quite understand why people assume that you're holding the door for everybody in sight to file by instead of just for the person in front of/behind you.

Celticfox: I agree with everything you've said, including your premonition of Draugnar's comment.

President Eden and Celticfox: I guess I haven't met people with such strong opinions about you being nice to them, ha ha.

I've never had someone chew me out when I held the door open, but I have had people (and I even want to say on this forum) who have chewed me out for saying I hold the door open, because apparently holding the door open is wrong.

And yeah, I get caught holding it for everyone sometimes. That's only a bother when I'm with someone though.

I haven't gotten yelled at for holding a door open, but for other polite gestures I have. Like giving up a seat to someone elderly. I have worked with, and still do, people who seem to expect things like that from everyone. They actually do complain when they don't happen. It boggles my mind.

This argument is the exact same as the "Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays" argument.

The only way you can be wrong is if you pick a side.

I'm not holding the door open because you are a lady; I'm doing so because *I* am a gentleman.

SpeakerToAliens: Ah, yes, but does you being a 'gentleman' have to do with (is defined by) her being a lady or is you being a 'gentleman' independent of her being a lady (because you hold the door open for everybody)? That is the question, you see.

In the UK, the word "girl" covers childless females upto their mid 30's (or even early 40's with modern cosmetics). Basically they have to look fresh and energetic. Women with young children tend to be too tired-out and look too haggered to be considered "girls".

I had a discussion with a girl at work about her not liking people using the word "girl" to refer to anyone older than school age - she was in her late 20's/early 30's and single - I pointed out that phrases like "The Spice Girls", "Girls Aloud", "Girl Power", "Material Girl", etc. probably weren't helping her argument and also that the girls at work all went out on what they themselves called "Girlie Nights Out". Sadly, my argument didn't make her any happier.

Whoever said the word chick could be sexist.

I am using it like how girls and guys call each other dude.

girls and guys call guys* "dude"

@JECE - I'm a child of the 50's. I'd be risking a clip round the ear if I'd behaved rudely (like not holding a door open). When you learn something that young it becomes something you do without thinking. It would take a conscious decision not too.

Some women don't like guys holding doors for them, etc. and may even object to such courtesy (though I haven't had a chance to use the put-down I posted earlier ... yet). What I don't get is why they don't take advantage of it at every opportunity instead? It's a win-win for the woman.

One thing that nobody seems to have covered yet. If a guy is courteous to a girl it may not increase his chances of getting her into bed, but if he isn't courteous to her those chances drop to near zero.

Does chick really = dude though?

An infant bird vs, well, a dude? (Which I think originally meant city slicker?)

I'm not saying YOU are sexist for saying, but I am saying that it could serve to perpetuate it or come off that way to others.

The best question on this ask though is:

Who pays for the date?

This is one area where, because it's cash, people are hard to pin down. A girl may be quite liberal, even a feminist, and still kind of take it hard when you suggest splitting the bill? Why? Because $$$ that's why - I would too fuck it.

So what do you do then? Don't want to just assume she wants you to pay and look like a dick either.

I don't have a system for this, I just kind of wing it each individual time lol

I think that worrying too much about what people say is the real problem. In my (albeit limited) experience, If you hesitate about saying it, they'll know you have low confidence in the appropriateness of you saying it, and therefore be able to make a big deal out of it. Almost similar to the use of the word 'nigger.' Now, I could've danced around the topic, or, in conversation, I could've stuttered or muttered it, but I didn't. Show confidence in what you're doing, and no one's going to call you out for it.

Onar, in terms of actual squeamishness to use a word, I agree.

There is nothing in my opinion wrong with actually uttering or typing words like "nigger", "cunt" "sausage wallet" or whatever you like, if the intent is to tell everyone what you're talking about.

Why say "the f-bomb" when you can just say "fuck," which is, you know, what you're actually talking about?

However when it comes to actually using the words in context, I wouldn't, and try not to, though I do without thinking.

My most often slipped words are calling men dicks and cocks meaning asshole. I don't want to do this as I think it's a bit like calling a woman a pussy. As if it is bad to called after your genitalia. Asshole is gender neutral though - and let's be honest, assholes ARE gross. Anything to do with bathroom vulgarity I allow when I'm hanging with friends. Also same goes for shit that is considered taboo like incest.

Therefore "motherfucker" gets to stay if you feel like dropping it.

This is just how I live, I certainly don't expect others to all follow me but I do believe there are certain slang terms we use that are better off dying.

The "who pays" question is easy enough, imo. I offer to pay. One, I offer to pay for lunch with friends anyway, so it's not some special antiquated courting ritual, it's just a pleasantry I don't mind extending. I'm by no means loaded, but I *do* work a lot, so consequently I tend to be much less strapped for cash than my peers, so I go ahead and offer to pick up the tab.

And then let's look at the practical side. Frankly, I think anyone who's going to get angry at someone offering a free lunch - and I do mean a free lunch, not that "lol I paid for dinner now I'm going to press you into sexual favors" bullshit some guys our age do - is petty and ridiculous, and certainly not someone with whom I want to be involved in any capacity anyway. Like I said, friends or dates or lovers, I pay pretty regularly anyway... I don't have the time, patience or energy to get in fights over petty shit like that on a regular basis. So it's a nice filter.

Thucy said: "Does chick really = dude though"

The meaning depends on the sender and the receiver. If it means dude to the sender and dude to the receiver then that is what it means. Words can have a myriad of meanings dependent on the context. Furthermore words change meaning even between a given sender and receiver dependent on range of factors: whether the words are uttered privately or publically, tone of voice, the emotional state of the speaker/listener, use of irony etc. The process is complex and yet effortless to us.
This doesn't seem to be a fashionable view around here at the moment, but it is common sense really.
Political correctness has its place but mainly to avoid misunderstandings in especially in the work place or in government etc. But some people take this principle way too far and draw conclusions about people that are totally wong. For example "if you use the word chic you don't respect women". It may or may not be true that the speaker disrespects women, but it is not necessarily true just because of a word choice that for many people both male and female is not offensive.

Does anybody know the etymology of "chick" as pertaining to young females?

typo... chic = chick

YJ: mid-14c., shortening of chicken (q.v.), extended to human offspring (often in alliterative pairing chick and child) and used as a term of endearment. As slang for "young woman" it is first recorded 1927 (in "Elmer Gantry"), supposedly from U.S. black slang, in British use by c.1940, popularized by Beatniks late 1950s. Chicken in this sense is from 1711. Sometimes c.1600-1900 chicken was taken as a plural, chick as a singular (cf. child/children) for the domestic fowl.

Some nationality, I forget who -- English? Australians? -- refer to women as "birds" too.

Birds is British. The classic Austalian slang for women is shiela, while men are blokes.

hello Etymology man...

Gobble: http://xkcd.com/1010/

I didn't even have to look. I love the two part Etymology Man XKCD strip! Poozer +100

That's a funny strip lol +1

Here is it's follow up.

http://xkcd.com/1012/

Spyman- it's written Sheila, not Shiela... and no one EVER uses that here. about as cliche as u can get

Is it just me or is it annoying when someone holds a door for us men?

I consider it common courtesy and am glad to see it when it happens and do so myself all the time. I mean, it's just plain fucking rude to let a door close on someone's face when it only costs you a few seconds to hold it open for them.

Sydney City thank you for correcting my spelling. Sheila is old fashioned which is why I used the term "classic", plus it is I believe uniquely Australian (as far as I am aware), as opposed to chick which seems to be American in origin (but which has spread) and bird which is British . You do still come across it, but more in the country than in the city.

Regardless every country and every language has slang terms for males and females.

I read that xkcd strip too sir...

Hey if women can call men hunks (of meat), then what is the difference? ;-)