Lady Gaga makes me want to vomit on someone. Habitually.

Lady Gaga makes me want to Gagag

If Obama had real cojones (you know, a pair bigger than Hillary Clinton's low hangers...) he'd send Seal Team 6 after Gaga (before she steal another Madonna move and forces the old lady beat her down like a red-headed step child)

Lady Gaga is great :)

...to poop on.

trip +42

Her songs are almost complete auto tuned.

As far as popstars/top 40 radio go, Lady Gaga is probably the best.

I guess I don't listen to "top 40" then. I'll take Stains or Augustana or Snow Patrol or ... You get the idea.

Staind - stupid autocorrect.

lol, Staind

I'll admit Judas is an absurdly catchy song, but Lady Gaga represents the worst of our society's decadence. She's a postmodern tramp who fancies herself to be some great artist, but really is nothing but a decent enough singer who spouts out inane and provocative songs. This broad the the celebrity I want to die soonest.

@Invictus: Firstly, it's distasteful that you would want anyone to die, let alone Lady Gaga. As for your comment about her representing decadence, a lot of her videos and lyrics ironise such things and have a lot of depth. She's managed to transform herself into a icon so clearly she has some intelligence behind her that should be credited - as opposed to her being trashed just because she isn't the kind of music someone enjoys to listen to or she doesn't conform to the vision of society that people have.

I don't enjoy most of the 'music' that Eminem produces but I appreciate that a lot of other people do and that he can influence, move, and strike a chord with many listeners. And you could hardly deny that Eminem's music is provocative - but surely that's a good thing, music shouldn't all be bland and the same. If music can provoke a reaction, a response, a discussion, then surely that's a good thing - as long as doesn't glorify misbehavior or criminality of course. At any rate, I don't wish Eminem dead or want poop on his head or other such bizarre things - as long as he isn't hurting anyone I say live and let live.

Lady Gaga might not be to someone's particular taste but you would be blind to fail to see that she has had a massive influence in popular culture. Not only that, she has been a strong (and rare) celebrity voice for gay rights and has raised a lot of money for charity efforts in Haiti and Japan. Yes, you could be cynical and say hey support for the gay community is just pandering to an audience who buy her records and the charity just makes her look good but at least she's doing something positive.


And I think Snow Patrol are great too.

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?threadID=604531&page-thread=1#threadPager

GaGa is incredible. Please read this thread if you disagree. It's one of my favorite threads to date, because we actually convinced Obi he was wrong.

GaGa's songs are about standing up for yourself and having self confidence. (Born This Way anyone?) They have incredible power to two largely oppressed groups, Women and LGBT people, and that's fantastic.

Hardly. My dislike for Lady Gaga has nothing to do with her music, which I kinda like. It's about her vacuousness passing for artistic integrity and the people like you who fall for it. How does a song about dancing on a "disco stick" ironize decadence? What depth is there to Judas beyond provoking and offending even the most lapsed Christian? How does wearing a dress made from raw meat do anything but shock for the sake of shock?

I don't mind her songs, I mind how she thinks she matters and people fall for it. If she would just be a pop artist who puts out fun dance songs like Britney Spears that would be fine. Instead she has to claim some deeper meaning using ham fisted postmodernism that barely is good enough for an undergraduate English paper. As Simpsons episode put it, postmodernism is "weird for the sake of weird" and Lady Gaga epitomizes it. People like her represent the death throws of Western civilization.

So yeah, I'd be happy if she died. She's a dreadful woman.

Did you read that thread, Invictus?

"How does a song about dancing on a "disco stick" ironize decadence? What depth is there to Judas beyond provoking and offending even the most lapsed Christian? How does wearing a dress made from raw meat do anything but shock for the sake of shock?"

"Instead she has to claim some deeper meaning using ham fisted postmodernism that barely is good enough for an undergraduate English paper. As Simpsons episode put it, postmodernism is "weird for the sake of weird" and Lady Gaga epitomizes it."

This. I'm glad she uses her influence for pro-gay activism -- certainly a lot of worse ways she could use it -- but 'weird for the sake of weird' is a perfect descriptor for it. Maybe I'm just missing the point, but I honestly struggle to find the point.

"This broad the the celebrity I want to die soonest."
"So yeah, I'd be happy if she died. She's a dreadful woman."

This. I think that's sad and pathetic. Rejoicing and wishing someone's death is abhorrent. I find it difficult to have an intellectual discussion with someone who has this kind of view.

As for 'Judas', American Evangelicals aside, I don't see why average Christians should be upset about it - and I think for the most part they aren't.

Yes, a lot of Lady Gaga's videos are provocative and have depth.

A bra made out of guns? Soldiers in fish net stockings squat dancing in a parade? SS(style)-uniformed soldiers prancing up and down as if on a catwalk? Those are clearly ironic images satirising violence, totalitarianism, control of others. These clearly aren't vacuous thoughtless images that a stylist has strung together.

It's disappointingly stereotypical that you would prefer wholesome virginal Britney Spears singing easy-to-digest by the numbers pop music as opposed to something a little bit more challenging like Lady Gaga's production. There have been countless Britney Spears copycats in the past two decades, there's only been one Lady Gaga. If Britney Spears is your level I'm not going to criticise that I just think it's a shame you want to keep parading your deathwish for someone who is clearly entertaining a lot of people.

As Smiley alludes to, the message in a lot her work is that everyone should be free and tolerated. If Lady Gaga has even touched just one person with such a message, why would you want to waste your time on an internet forum trashing her? Why not start a thread on the hundreds of millions of child workers that fund cheap Gap clothing or you could bitch about the Catholic Church's outdated policy on contraception that furthers the spread of HIV in poor countries where people's only source of education often comes from their local Catholic-run school?

No, instead you come to bitch about Lady Gaga, making a great difference.

If the best statement you've got to end your argument on is "So yeah, I'd be happy if she died. She's a dreadful woman." you have no place in a rational balanced argument between intelligent people and should just go grab a placard and join the Westboro Baptist Church because that's all they can do as well.

I don't care for her music. But everyone has different tastes.
See how hard that was Invictus?

"A bra made out of guns? Soldiers in fish net stockings squat dancing in a parade? SS(style)-uniformed soldiers prancing up and down as if on a catwalk? Those are clearly ironic images satirising violence, totalitarianism, control of others. These clearly aren't vacuous thoughtless images that a stylist has strung together."

So she's anti-violence and anti-totalitarianism. Seriously... who ISN'T? She's taking things that pretty much everyone gets behind and making intentionally-strange ironic images for them that don't advance a point that hasn't already been widely accepted. Hence, weird for the sake of weird.

Stuff like "Born This Way" I can appreciate, because it's advancing a very important point that for some reason hasn't been widely accepted and needs to be. Even still, the imagery is intentionally weird for its own sake... which somehow is absolutely brilliant...

which is the primary complaint. So you're anti-violence, anti-totalitarianism, anti-gay discrimination. Wonderful positions. And you're expressing this through strange imagery. That's fine too.

But what on Earth about aforesaid strange imagery makes her this goddess of expression that so many people hail her as? Because I don't think anyone denies that her primary standout trait is the weirdness of her imagery. And that's what people praise as being so "deep." It's not any deeper than any other imagery, and the complaint I have (and that most other people who would claim she gets a disproportionately high amount of praise for her work) is that her supporters take this imagery representing ideas that, on the whole, people support anyway, and make her out to be some transcendent artist and... I just don't see it. The images are clearly original, but the ideas behind them aren't and that, in my opinion, is the important part of an artist's work. And her ideas certainly aren't bad -- just... they're not something we haven't heard before, and don't deserve to be treated as though they are.

I agree with what you say to an extent, Eden. I wouldn't call her the Goddess of Expression either. I don't agree that her imagery's primary trait is weirdness - I would use the term 'powerful'. I wouldn't call myself a blind follower of Lady Gaga - I'm not - I just have an appreciation of her work and I really don't understand why people like to needlessly rubbish someone. There was a thread a couple of weeks ago about heavy metal and hard rock music - I posted on there saying how I agreed one song they were discussing was really great but actually I don't really enjoy the heavy metal genre at all yet I didn't post my dislike in that thread and I didn't post any rants about how goths should die or deserve 'poop' on their heads or other such things people have done here.

However I would like to take you up on your criticism that:

"she's anti-violence and anti-totalitarianism. Seriously... who ISN'T? She's taking things that pretty much everyone gets behind and making intentionally-strange ironic images for them that don't advance a point that hasn't already been widely accepted."

I actually wouldn't agree with you at all that anti-violence, anti-totalitarianism or even anti-gay discrimination have been as you say "widely accepted". I don't have a wealth of American examples that I can refer to but I can speak first-hand of experience in the United Kingdom and our society still has problems with violence and discrimination. Gang culture and gun violence are persisting problems across the country, particularly in Manchester, the city I've lived in for the past 5 years - so I can safely say that your point that these issues are "widely accepted" is just not true. Images like the ones in the 'Alejandro' video satirising gun worship are still important when in places like Manchester statistics show that at least one child will die every week from gun violence.

As for gay tolerance, I wish that I lived in the place that you do where this is a non-issue. Manchester is known as being one of the three most gay-tolerant places in the whole of the UK but unfortunately gay violence still persists.

As for anti-totalitarianism, your comment that this isn't a problem makes me even more concerned about the kind of news coverage American media outlets provide. A large portion of the world's population is under totalitarian control - this is so clearly a persisting problem.

No one is saying that Lady Gaga is a Goddess to be worshipped or a unique human being who isn't building on things that have been done before - she herself admits her influences (which come in many forms: from Madonna to David Bowie) - it's just that she's contemporary and speaking to a new generation. To someone who hasn't listened to David Bowie or Madonna, Lady Gaga is breaking waves and introducing a lot of new ideas and images.

Heh. Notice I didn't quote Invictus's other statements in agreement. =P

And I admit I failed to qualify my statements accurately... I'll explain as I go along here.

"I actually wouldn't agree with you at all that anti-violence, anti-totalitarianism or even anti-gay discrimination have been as you say "widely accepted"."

First -- I specifically differentiated anti-gay discrimination from the first two. I live in Louisiana... one of the most backwater regions of the West on this front. I praised her for the message in "Born This Way" and her activism with regards to this because it's extremely clear that the West hasn't gotten over gays yet when this should be a gigantic non-issue.

"As for anti-totalitarianism, your comment that this isn't a problem makes me even more concerned about the kind of news coverage American media outlets provide. A large portion of the world's population is under totalitarian control - this is so clearly a persisting problem.

"Gang culture and gun violence are persisting problems across the country, particularly in Manchester, the city I've lived in for the past 5 years - so I can safely say that your point that these issues are "widely accepted" is just not true. Images like the ones in the 'Alejandro' video satirising gun worship are still important when in places like Manchester statistics show that at least one child will die every week from gun violence."

From what I can see -- and again, I could very well be wrong -- Gaga's music is not marketed toward totalitarianism-enablers or violent gangs. The message is meant to target them, sure, but it's not targeted toward them. Her core demographic, put very loosely, are relatively affluent Westerners from the ages of about 15-30. These are not people in totalitarian states or promoting totalitarian states. The anti-totalitarian message honestly strikes me as being akin to one of the cheerleader Miss America types being all "Like, totalitarianism is totally wrong you guys, so we need to like stop it now, yeah!" (n.b. -- not calling Gaga an idiot or anything with this, by the way. I know the bimbo-speak makes it sound idiotic, but I know Gaga is not stupid. It's just that the anti-totalitarian message, marketed to young people in the most democratic societies on the planet, strikes me as being very shallow.) Same thing with gang violence and culture: yes, it's pervasive, but how many gangsters would you bet give two shits about Gaga?

The messages are good, but some (most?) don't seem to be marketed to the right demographic to make a change. Targeting young people with pro-gay messages is smart; that's how you bring about change, by spreading good messages to younger people. It's part of the reason for the success of the American racial civil rights movement and I think it will help gays acquire the same rights they deserve. But 15-30 something affluent Westerners are not the people who perpetuate gang violence or totalitarianism.

And the whole "her followers hail her as a goddess" thing wasn't directed at you, Sarg, certainly. But the phenomenon exists, and is the primary critique I (and I imagine most others) have of her stuff. "Overrated" tends to imply "bad," which is not what I mean, but in the sheerest technical sense I find Gaga to be overrated. Good, but overrated.

"As for 'Judas', American Evangelicals aside, I don't see why average Christians should be upset about it - and I think for the most part they aren't."

A song about loving the man who betrayed Christ is nothing but a way to poke any sort of Christian in the eye. This from a guy who rocked out the song at a club as recently as Friday. But you can't deny that anybody with even a remnant of respect for the religion is going to not like the idea of a song praising Judas. You might not agree with that, but that's what happens. This woman knew exactly what she was doing in writing a song like that. There's no great meaning here. There's a fun beat and a set of lyrics designed to inflame opinion and spread a constructed controversy. It's a really smart business strategy, but it's not some sort new Bohemian Rhapsody.

"It's disappointingly stereotypical that you would prefer wholesome virginal Britney Spears singing easy-to-digest by the numbers pop music as opposed to something a little bit more challenging like Lady Gaga's production."

You can't be that stupid. My problem with Lady Gaga comes from her pretending to be more than just an entertainer. Britney Spears does not do that. She knows she's there to make people have some fun with music. I happen to not listen to her and probably couldn't even name a song she's written in the last 10 years, but I do like how she's not showing up to a Cubs game in a bra and asking people to thing she's a great mind enlightening the world.

"As Smiley alludes to, the message in a lot her work is that everyone should be free and tolerated."

Oh, what a courageous position to take.


"No, instead you come to bitch about Lady Gaga, making a great difference. "

You know who makes a difference? People whose carriers are dedicated to solving the world's problems, not writing songs. That's the crux of why I despise this woman. She's spreading "clicktivism" where people think all they have to do is hold all the correct received-wisdom opinions and make petty little contributions to matter. I would never doubt her heart's in the right place on a lot of things, but she is definitely not making a difference beyond making middle class young people feel vindicated in how progressive they are.

"wouldn't call myself a blind follower of Lady Gaga - I'm not"

Then someone else is writing your posts.


"I actually wouldn't agree with you at all that anti-violence, anti-totalitarianism or even anti-gay discrimination have been as you say "widely accepted"."
"our society still has problems with violence and discrimination."

So the existence of something means opposition to it isn't widely accepted? Murders still happen, is the jury out on whether that's OK? There is a lot of violence in poor places, but you can hardly say that's thought of as acceptable in society. We do have a justice system, after all. By living in the UK you live in a society so anti-totalitarian that they allow a group of Muslims to protest outside the American embassy in support of Bin Laden this week. These are people who would make the entire world submit to a totalitarian caliphate in opposition to everything built on in the West since the Enlightenment. Our society is so anti-totalitarian that is tolerates the totalitarians! Ant-gay violence, where it still exists, is handled by the legal system. Like anything, it's imperfect.


Lady Gaga is a fool who only seeks attention. Her obscurantist style hides the fact that what she says is really simplistic dribble. Again, her music's fine and I would have no problem with her if she just behaved like the entertainer she is. Instead she has pretensions of wisdom and importance. Whatever the merit of the banal positions she takes, she represents just how far the termites have gone in wrecking our culture. So again, I wouldn't be sad if she died. Good riddance.

"So again, I wouldn't be sad if she died."

You keep changing the qualification of that sentence.

First, you wished her dead.
Then, you said you would be happy if she died.
Now, you change it to not being sad if she died.

As, I said, I'm not going to discuss the main issue at hand with you any more because you can't help but be callous and ever so slightly pompous.

@Eden: Again, I agree mostly with you very nicely said, and I always have a lot of time to read your posts. I agree with you about the target audience issue - as for the totalitarianism point - obviously that isn't a pervading issue in Lady Gaga's work and I think the point I made has now been taking out of context and too far - it's just something that can be seen in the video 'Alejandro' and an example I used to contradict the tirade Invictus made against her work calling it vacuous, Gaga a fool and implying that her songs were pure fluff - an assessment which, although you debate the merits of her work, I think you would agree is not true.

I think those all mean the same thing. You also need to lighten up.

Callous and pompous because I call her out on her absurdities? I feel no need to be respectful to a woman who makes Derrida look like Hemingway.

@Invictus:

Let me say this: I hate "Judas". I am not Christian, I just think it's one of the worst songs she's made.

But that being said, there are obvious reasons she would choose to use the imagery of Judas. I think you're being so literal it is almost absurd. The song is not meant to be taken literally, but rather an expression of an unhealthy relationship where she's in love with someone who betrayed her - much like "Bad Romance", if you ask me.

I don't have the time or inclination to discuss this thoroughly until such a time as you've read everything in that thread I linked to. Everything you say indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of her work, which I think that thread will help clear up.

how can you write so much about a such mediocre singer?
misunderstanding is the rigth word
i misunderstand her totally
i cant understand how humanity can go so wrong sometimes
every word in this tread is a waist of electricity poluting our planet
i want to cry when i realize that not only there is nothing new in music but they know we eat everything well comercialized

"i want to cry when i realize that not only there is nothing new in music but they know we eat everything well comercialized"

There is lots new in music. You just have to put in the time to find it.

Let's at least pick someone decent to talk about... How about Muse? Uprising is an awesome song using the guitar, bass, and drum riffs so similar to Call Me, White Wedding, Marilyn Manson's Personal Jesus and, of course, Doctorin' The Tardis and The Doctor Who Theme.