Wear pants

i dont have any real experience with computers. this semester, i have had to write and run some code for an econometrics class that im taking. i enjoy it. i am also obviously inspired by the facebook movie.

what is a good place/language to start? my university's computer science department uses python in their first year courses. i dont have time to actually take the course but is that a good language to start with? i just want to learn how this shit works and maybe some general guidelines about syntax and writing basic programs and stuff like that. any suggestions about books, languages, or websites that are good starting points would be appreciated

also sorry in advance for being such a noob when it comes to this stuff.

It's been a great long while since I've done any (semi-)serious coding, but I thought Java was the easiest and quickest way to start doing fun and practical stuff without having to make a big financial investment.

What sort of stuff do you want to be able to do? That will partially determine what language is best. In general, C and Java are good because the online resources are fantastic.

Ava's requirement is completely optional. I code in my PJs on a regular basis. And I find a kilt much less restraining and more breathable.

Abgemacht's advice is solid in that C and Java are both good starting languages. I would also recommend C#.Net or VB.Net as Microsoft offers a free version of each for developing either websites or windows forms programs.

Ignore these n00bs. Fortran and COBOL are the way to go!

@ strat

I code exclusively in Fortran, but it isn't for everyone.

Assembler, actually. To understand the machine, first you must think like the machine.

@abge - I was kidding; both languages are incredibly niche-ey at this point, and are unsuitable for most needs

I know, but I still love it.

Also, stay away from scripting languages for the time being. They do things differently and I don't think its conducive to learning good programming practices.

@Frank I found Python pretty easy to pick up the basics, though that was with knowing a bit of Pascal & C++ from a computing course. The good thing about it is that it forces you into a good style, with indentation being important, leading to readable code. I have a PDF version of "Programming Python" that I could send to you, if you PM me your e-mail address.

I think the thing you need to do is play around with one or two, then look at what you actually want to do. Pretty much everything you learn is useful in other languages, so pick one that's fairly easy to learn to begin with. If you just pick up something like C++ straight off the hook, you will likely find it heavy going.

go to school/take the course. there's no other way

alamothe -1

Of course, if you have time to take a class, you should, but it sounds like you're already busy with your other studies. Programming is wonderful in that you can very easily teach yourself the basics. It's also one of those things that has an extensive collection of (good) tutorials online.

It also has an extensive group of individuals and blogs to help when you hit the tricky parts. the programming group is one of the most open and willing to help groups out there. Lawyers wantt o get paid. Doctors want to get paid. Financial experts (brokers, etc.) want to get paid. But programmers love what they do enough to do things just for the fun of it. they enjoy a challenge and if they find a task interesting, they'll tackle it for little or no reimbursement.

I'd go the other way and suggest starting with a scripting language.
Its a good way to get your head into the idea's and methodology of programming, and can give relatively quick results, without having to deal with the complexities experienced around arrays/lists in lower level languages.
So yeh, personally I'd say start with a script (if your school recommends python then might be a good choice to stay in sync with everyone else?) then hit the real languages when you're happy.

Wait, programmers don't want to get paid, or the other group don't love what they do? Stop talking bullshit

"But programmers love what they do enough to do things just for the fun of it. they enjoy a challenge and if they find a task interesting, they'll tackle it for little or no reimbursement. "

This is only applied to a tiny minority of people in ANY profession. 99% of people have jobs because they need money.

That being said, Java is a good place to start. There's lots of free stuff on the internet to help you, and JCreator is free to download. If you want, there are also books on the subject that you can buy for $20 or less. However, when you get stuck, the best way to get help would be from a person, but those can be hard to come by. Maybe you could try asking people at your school's computer department for help.

I meant online, ray. I was referring to the fact that you'll find a lot more community projects and, therefore, resources for help in the only developer community than you will in any of the other mentioned communities. This is partly due to doctors and lawyers having to worry about lawsuits for bad advice, but also due to the developers naturally gravitating to their natural environment: online and their naturally inquisitive nature. I wasn't saying they work fro free. Just that they are willing to share their experience and knowledge with like minded people online.

Geez. You people can twist anything. I'm talking about in their spare time, alamothe. If they find a task challenging or have a personal interest in it, developers are more likely to work on that. We still make a living and that is why we have jobs or clients if we are consulting/contract folk.

Python is the business. I took a course in COBOL once, lost 20% of my brain functioning, now I have to eat thru a straw.
Java is the tool of the devil.

Python isn't used much in the business world though. Java and .Net (C# or VB) are used more.

To be honest if you want to see easy results quickly apart from "Hello Worlds" I'd get Visual Studio 2010 free and try c# playing with Windows Forms Tutorials. From there if you can pick things up easily enough you will learn and see how a lot of the basics work. If you are interested in games, XNA and c# are a brilliant opener, a great deal of tutorials out there.

Sorry to Java lovers, I started on java and it was okay, but to me, it seemed like an awful lot of downloading to get everything setup to code and I never created anything very cool in it without a good bit of effort, IMHO.

@Draug vrs Alamothe - Case in point: This place, written by Kestas as a hobby.

@Xan - I was expecting that from java, but to be fair it was no more work than installing gcc.

Yeah, but Kestas is a profesional too. Would you like a self-educated surgeon to operate on you? Or a self-educated pilot to fly the plane? Didn't think so. Programming can be fun, but like any other profesion it is taught in school

Hmm, still not sure about that alamothe.
Also, whilst yes he's now got a computer science degree, he started this place back in 2004 - before the degree.

Hey, my first job at 16 was as a programmer for MEade Digital Systems in Vandalia/Dayton Ohio. Developed a system on an Apple ][e to pull data from a disk generated on a Nicolette oscilliscope into the Apple, graphed the results, saved and or printed the graph, then transfer the data up to a DEC PDP 11 for mathematical analysis and long term data store. I then wrote the ForTran to analysis the numbers to determine precisely where the sample brokedown in relation to heat, cycles, and time. I was 16. I had taken all of 1 high school class. I learned that I really liked programming and I learned a lot more about it than the one class I took that year in high school (sophmore year, 1982) ever taught me.

Yes, I have a degree and certifications now, but getting the basics is best done by doing and having resources to ask questions of.

alamothe

Did you even read the OP or are your just trying to be difficult?

@alamothe; I did start on phpDip before I wrote any code professionally, and before I started studying computer science (and we didn't do PHP in my courses). However I definitely agree that the right course gives you a really great set of tools to work with, which you're not going to get on your own. All my code, webDip included, has been enriched by a decent theoretical foundation

On the other hand there's loads of stuff you'll need to know that uni won't teach you; they'll teach you old languages, UNIX, they won't teach you how to cope with large projects, and loads of graduates will simply be unable to write real-world code. (I could give quite a few anecdotes which would be a disgrace to my uni)


Also @Frank *please* don't get into coding because you saw some movie and think it's the path to riches.. The Facebook guy paid someone to do his coding (if memory serves), same goes for Apple, Digg, and Oracle (Microsoft and Google are exceptions)
It's sad to say but, even though I'm not at all bad at what I do, I'd probably be struggling in a less buoyant local economy..
The small-coder-to-millionaire dream is something I really hope died with the dot-com boom, because it has been terrible for the profession.


So finally my advice is to think of some software that would be useful to you, or that's interesting to you, and go from there. If you're not into it keep trying different things until you find something you like

@kestas - Microsoft was originally formed off of bought code. the original PC-DOS turned MS-DOS wasn't written by Gates, but by some other guys. Gates just had the moxy to take it to IBM and cut a deal and the rest is history, as they say. :-)

@Draugnar - a great $50,000 investment (to pick up the rights to DOS).

IIRC they started off with BASIC, which they sold to Altair

Yeah, but the great thing is they sold it without ever having written it, then had to go write it to demonstrate it.

Kestas, Mark Zuckerberg did not pay someone to do his coding. He did it himself in a very short amount of time (a week or so he claims, but certainly less than a couple of months).

Ah right, got confused by that lawsuit where someone said they paid him to write their code

I recomend reading The Facebook Effect. It is an amazing story. Start a website in Feb 2004. Within six months someone offers you $10 million for the company. A short time later another offer is $25 million; then $750 million. Zuckerberg turned them all down. And he was only 20.

He wrote a music app in high school for which he was offered $3 million but instead he chose to put it online for free. Amazing guy. Just like you Kestas :-)

I'll check that out :o For Microsoft's history I recommend a book called "Hard drive", very interesting stuff and well written

Python great to start with. It's high-level and thus a bit easier to understand and there are free, well documented and used tutorials free online (for 2 and 3, for example "invent your own computer games with Python")