In gunboat, you are virtually required to open with a hedgehog. Keeping Russia out of Galicia should be the top priority, worrying about an Italian stab is secondary.

Same as Rojimy, except Trieste hold. This defends against hostile Russia and Italy and guarantees a build.

That's important info. I am finding that understanding gunboat is pretty helpful in being a good press player. Relying on press for defense doesn't work

Basically, if italy comes for you in a gunboat, you are dead. That's why i pretty much always move F Tri -> Albania. It guarantees you two builds, even in Italy stabs you, which in turn lets you kick italy in the teeth so hard he will never win the game and most probably will die, even if you are sure to die aswell.
Italy attacking Austria in 01 is pretty much the worst idea you can have in a gunboat.

"Relying on press for defense doesn't work."

Sounds like you need to work on improving your press. I rely on it for defense in all sorts of ways.

I rarely use anything but a hedgehog. Occasionally in press I try to coordinate a crafty move with Italy, be it either a key or a blue water lepanto or whatever else, just to build trust, because frankly, my only chance of survival is if Italy trusts me, even if I'm at 7 centers and he's at 4. In gunboat, though, none of those options really work.

Some people think it's worth altering your opening in order to please either Turkey or Russia and try to break them up but the odds of actually getting them against each other in 1901 are too low to mess with it.

"Relying on press for defence doesn't work"

Correct, you use your press to make sure you don't need defence in the first place.

Well I exaggerate of course. With press it is best to trust but verify. I am a little annoyed at the moment, because I am playing a game where I got gushing press from four players all of whom stabbed me. Sometimes that occurs

Looks like those four players used press so they didn't need to defend...

Trieste->Albania, Budapest->Serbia, Vienna variable (usually to Galicia in gunboat). I'm perfectly happy to gain a strong position if Italy is sensible and do my best to take him down with me if he isn't.

>"Relying on press for defence doesn't work"
>
>Correct, you use your press to make sure you don't need defence in the first place.

Not correct. You can also use press to figure out what moves your opponent(s) will make to attack you so you can choose the correct defensive moves.

But you've already failed if they're attacking you. You're describing sub-optimal play still.

What four players? In any event, press is limited in what you can do, so relying on press soley typically leaves you wide open to a stab for sure. If you don't also cover and make the stab unattractive your press is not going to help.

"In any event, press is limited in what you can do, so relying on press soley typically leaves you wide open to a stab for sure. If you don't also cover and make the stab unattractive your press is not going to help."

In any event, moves are limited in what you can do, so relying on moves soley typically leaves you wide open to a stab for sure. If you don't also negotiate and make the stab unattractive your moves are not going to help.

Unless Italy really presses for a bounce or I get strong indications he's going to stab, I almost always open south: Trieste-Albania, Budapest Serbia, Vienna-Galicia. I believe this is technically the Balkan Gambit?

Like Partysane and benjormundgand say, I try to make it clear to Italy that if he starts the fire, we're gonna burn together. My thinking is, either I will get big quick (usually necessary for Austria) or I can start another game soon, since Italy will have ruined it for both of us.

This seems to be the prevailing attitude on the site, but it does leave a huge hole for Italy to sneak in. If you're Austria and I'm Italy, I will open Nap-Ion, Rom-Apu and Ven-Tri. You'll have to play a Key Lepanto with me, and that's horrible for you.

Yes, there may be a juggernaut later on, but the R/I is a good alternative for Russia. And if ever there's a situation where I/T works, it's a failed Key Lepanto. Finally, if the juggernaut forms, you're even more reliant on me, and we haven't lost any centers to them yet. Compared to a normal Lepanto, I've got one extra center and you one less. Doesn't that sound good for Italy?

@Oscar: Nobody suggested relying solely on moves. My comment was relying on PRESS doesn't work. I don't think anything anyone has said suggests otherwise frankly.

Yes, Ogion, I can read. Thanks.

You're wrong though. You distinct between press and moves based on one being reliable for defense and the other not. This is silly and incorrect because generally: both are useful to improve the effectiveness of your defense and neither is sufficient just by itself.

Note that you have failed (as in not even attempted) to explain why one would (according to you) not be able to rely on press for defense whereas I have given an example of how you can use press for defense (figuring out what moves the attacker will make). Here's another example: you can use press to get someone else to cut a support for you.

well, that is silly: Press alone is inadequate for a simple reason: they could be (and likely are) lying their ass off. Thus, one always needs to have moves that defend rather than simply acting as if everything is true and hoping it is. Sometimes that works, but it's not a good policy.

If you are thinking of ways press can help defense, then you are far too limited. Press can force enemies to fight, "allies" to leave SCs open when you stab, etc., etc.

I always open with Vienna to Galicia, Budapest to Serbia, and Trieste to Albania. If Italy is attacking you, you're dead anyway.

I hope next time I play against you guys, I draw Italy :)

Why isn't the hedgehog more popular? Yes, you sacrifice the build in Greece, but that's better than possibly giving up a home center. And with some diplomatic effort you can engineer a bounce in Greece, or you could try supporting Italy.

The fleet in Trieste is useless in Trieste. It needs to get to Greece so it can bounce Turkey's fleet in Aegean in 1902.

Serbia needs to be taken, and Galicia needs to be neutral in 1901. This requires the specific moves favored by most gunboat players.

I really appreciate your comments

I would like to add some more thoughts:
1. Gunboat
A good way to communicate in gunboat games is to use SupportHold Orders to Signal friendship. Instead to play Tri=>Ven i would rather play Tri SH Ven to show italy you want to play together. This is slightly less effective if Italy opens with Ven=>Tyr and Rom=>Ven. But if Italy goes mad - you are in trouble anyway.

Another option i saw lately is: Vie=>Gal, Bud=>Tri !, Tri=>Alb. That way you can attack Greece and Serbia and get at least one build if italy is friendly. The drawback of this opening is - you don't have control over Serbia. Serbia is the key-center on the balcans. The player controling Serbia is usually the player having attack options. So i personally prefer opening with Bud=>Ser.
2. Press
If you have press Italy and Austria have some more Options. One not too bad is that Austria allows Italy to take Triest in the first fall move to get 2 fleet builds. With that Italy can Launch a real threatening attack on France.

There is another extrem strong A+I opening if the nations team up:
Spring:
Italy: Ven=>Tri, Nap=>Ion, Rom=>Ven
Austria: Tri=>Alb, Vie=>Gal, Bud SM Vie=>Gal
Autum:
Italy: Tri=>Ser, Ion SM Alb=>Gre, Ven=>Tyr
Austria: Alb=>Gre, Bud SM Tri=>Ser, Gal hold
This gives 1 save build both for Italy and Austria. Italy builds a fleet with will turn towards Tunis and secure a 2nd build while Gre and Ion are able to force their way into Ägäis in turn 3 usually. That way extrem high pressure on Rum and Bul can be created.

Southern Hedgehog all day errday. Italy loves the Lepanto in this site's meta [why I don't know...] and if you come out fairly forcefully with a Hedgehog opening Italy will acquiesce the vast majority of the time. Then you bounce Russia out of Galicia in the spring and Turkey out of Bulgaria in the fall. You only build one, but you've ensured none of your neighbors build more than one either, and that Italy is railroaded into attacking Turkey and that any RT vs AI war is going to end in your favor. Greece is wide the hell open in S02 and you might even get Bulgaria in A02.

Only real drawback is that a particularly stubborn Italian player will gun for you even if you announce the Hedgehog, but you can make that a poor decision if he does try it anyway. A smart Italian player is going to press you really hard to get you not to run the Hedgehog, but if you stick to your guns on that and remain amicable besides, they're not likely to make an enemy of you. After all, you're Austria, the most vulnerable country in the game for the first 2-3 years. Can you really be faulted for taking exceptionally proactive steps to secure your vulnerable borders?

Order flow 1901
A Vie -> Gal; odds are it bounces [in which case Vie -> Gal again in the fall], sometimes it works [in which case entertain negotiations concerning Romania and work them to your advantage]
A Bud -> Ser -> Bul [bounce; Turkey is isolated in Greece the vast majority of the time and you're free to take it and force the army to disband]
F Tri -> Ven [bounce; if not something went really wrong], Tri -> Alb
Build A Tri

gal, ser, alb .... or : vie-tri, bud-gal, F-alb

Thanks, PE. That is exactly how Austria should be played in 1901, as far as I'm concerned. You are certain to go to 4, and there are lots of diplomatic options going forward. There is a possibility that an exceptionally creative Italian will order Ven-Tri, Apu-Alb in fall 1901, but that's risky for him too. If you get bounced in Gal, you could also move Vie-Tri to protect yourself (or tell Italy you're doing that while going to Gal).

I'm amazed how many players consider Greece a more important center to hold in 1901 than Trieste.

I don't have one favourite opening for Austria, because as Austria (and all the otzer countries too ... but with austria even more) press is the most impprtant thing even before the opening moves ... and that press always influences my choice of opening.

I am a bit surprised noone mentionned the blue water lepanto yet ... or did I miss it?

I don't understand why people aren't more adventurous on this site. In tournament games, yes, I tend to play a bit more conservatively, but in just random games I like to experiment. One of my favorite ones is an A/T I created by opening Vie-Gal, Bud-Rum, Tri-Alb. (It turned out horrible, because I learned a dead Russia by 1903 is not good for game balance. But hey, we killed the Jugg!). I've also opened Vie-Tyr in the past, too. It makes games interesting and if you have long-sighted players as neighbors, they'll go at each other's throats rather than get into your backside

I'm with Sevyas. As Austria diplomacy should dictate your opening. Keep your options open as much as possibly, try to direct everyone in other directions, aim to ally with whomever you think is most trustworthy and/or gullible between R, T and I and strike hard and swift against whomever of them you think is going to try and take advantage of your weak early game position.

My main goal as Austria is always to make a friend of Italy. I say it every game, whether I'm Italy or Austria, and I mean it sincerely, that when Italy and Austria open as enemies, both will see an early grave.

Oscar, isn't that how good players open as every power?