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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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dirge (768 D(B))
03 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
Is Webdip skimming/scamming??
Where's my missing point GDI?
17 replies
Open
Ramsu (100 D)
03 Jan 14 UTC
Need a new Texas
gameID=129349
8 SCs, global chat, 3 day phases, still very much in the game.
4 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
03 Jan 14 UTC
Europa universalis IV
Anyone have it? How is this installment
16 replies
Open
ILN (100 D)
03 Jan 14 UTC
Japan's increasing tax burden
http://mises.org/daily/6629/Austrian-Economics-and-Interventionism-in-Japan
pangloss (363 D)
03 Jan 14 UTC
I love that Canada is lumped in with Sweden when it comes to government intervention and taxation. I'd be more inclined to put Canada next to, or at least nearer to the US rather than Sweden.

I'm not very familiar with Austrian economic thought, and I found this interview/article to be rather unhelpful in rectifying this problem. It seems more directed at people familiar with their concepts and shorthand.
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Jan 14 UTC
Arguably, the US is significantly lower than Japan, Sweden, or Canada and a big reason for this is a lack of socialized healthcare. Our highest tax bracket is just under 40% and the typical household pays 25% or less. You have to make 85 grand or more of taxable income (after deductions) to pay higher. I don't even pay higher than that after you take out my deductions and I make a *nice* income.

So I think lumping Canada with Sweden makes sense.
this will end well
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Jan 14 UTC
Actually, it seems like an OK subject that won't go vitriolic so long as Putin and krellin stay off the thread.
pangloss (363 D)
03 Jan 14 UTC
I looked for tax rates in the OECD, but it's difficult to compare a lot of different income taxes because some states are federations while some are not, and there are numerous complications for each country's tax code. http://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/tax-database.htm#pir (You have to download an Excel sheet) (These data are from 2012).

Canada's top marginal tax rate is 29% with the threshold being around C$130K. Sweden's top marginal rate is at 33% at around 575K krona (Google says that's about $88K in USD). The USA's top marginal rate is 35% starting at $390K (in USD). So the top marginal rates are all about the same amount. Note that Sweden has fewer tax brackets than Canada, which has fewer tax brackets than the USA.

If we compare rates around the same level, Canada's tax rate for around C$85K is 26%, Sweden's is 25%, and the USA is also at 25%. It seems that tax codes are all around the same levels at that income bracket.

If we compare the lowest threshold for paying taxes, we find: Canada starts at 15% for incomes below C$42K, Sweden starts at 400 000 krona ($60K in USD) with a rate of 20% (incomes under that don't appear to pay income taxes, but if anyone with knowledge on this can correct me), and the USA starts at 10% for incomes under $8700. I'm going to go with the next bracket up for Canada and the USA, because I know that (as a student) I certainly don't pay income taxes, and I assume there is a similar sort of thing for the USA. The next bracket up for Canada is 22% for incomes over $42K but under C$85K. For the USA, it's 15% for incomes between $8700 and $35K, and 25% for between $35K and $85K.

Sweden seems to be differentiated from Canada and the USA in that they have a higher threshold to start paying income taxes. In terms of tax rates, I think it's more apt to say that Canada and the US are more similar than Canada and Sweden.

Now, it could be that we get drastically different rates if we consider tax credits and the like, but I'm not about to crack open three different countries' tax laws. I will note that both Canada and Sweden have federal sales taxes while the USA does not. But, it is important to point out that the presence of tax credits does not mean that there are lower rates, even if they affect a large swath of the population. It simply means that the government is willing to make exceptions for some people, but for non-members of those groups, they think they should pay the "official" rates.

So what about socialised medicine and other government social programs?

I did a quick search for social expenditures (as % of GDP) in the OECD, and I found this table: http://www.oecd.org/social/expenditure.htm (the bar chart--it's under the heading "SOCX data").

Canada is below the OECD average and Sweden is third-highest. Interestingly, Canada and the USA have similar government expenditure, but the USA is above the OECD average because of private expenditures.

(Now, the chart is from 2009, but I don't think there's been a radical turnaround in any of these figures, so the relative positions are probably fine.)

I didn't look closely at the raw data, but, visually, the proportion of private spending on social goods is higher in Canada and the USA than it is in Sweden. Countries that have a (visually and without taking out precise measurements on this chart) higher amount of private expenditure are: Australia, Canada, Iceland, Switzerland, the USA, Great Britain, and the Netherlands.

So in terms of public spending, I would be more likely to include Canada and the USA together rather than Canada and Sweden.

Furthermore, I would say that there is a larger difference in culture between Canada and Sweden and a much more similar culture between Canada and the USA. This is obvious, since Canada and the USA are adjacent. We watch the same TV shows and movies. We Canadians cross the border to go shopping. We listen when American politicians speak. I would argue that this results in similar-minded policy and discourse, although Canada certainly shows its more British influence.

It's perhaps appropriate to group Sweden and Canada together if you're coming from an extreme position. I think that's probably what's happening in this article. From a distance, they all look the same! (As an aside, it might be that this Web site also thinks America is anti-Liberty, but I won't bother to check). But, for the rest of us, it's a little much to equate the two.
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Jan 14 UTC
The US is actually 39.6% over 400K, but that is after deductions and doesn't include Social Security.

Single Filing Status
[Tax Rate Schedule X, Internal Revenue Code section 1(c)] • 10% on taxable income from $0 to $8,925, plus
• 15% on taxable income over $8,925 to $36,250, plus
• 25% on taxable income over $36,250 to $87,850, plus
• 28% on taxable income over $87,850 to $183,250, plus
• 33% on taxable income over $183,250 to $398,350, plus
• 35% on taxable income over $398,350 to $400,000, plus
• 39.6% on taxable income over $400,000.

Married Filing Jointly or Qualifying Widow(er) Filing Status
[Tax Rate Schedule Y-1, Internal Revenue Code section 1(a)] • 10% on taxable income from $0 to $17,850, plus
• 15% on taxable income over $17,850 to $72,500, plus
• 25% on taxable income over $72,500 to $146,400, plus
• 28% on taxable income over $146,400 to $223,050, plus
• 33% on taxable income over $223,050 to $398,350, plus
• 35% on taxable income over $398,350 to $450,000, plus
• 39.6% on taxable income over $450,000.

Married Filing Separately Filing Status
[Tax Rate Schedule Y-2, Internal Revenue Code section 1(d)] • 10% on taxable income from $0 to $8,925, plus
• 15% on taxable income over $8,925 to $36,250, plus
• 25% on taxable income over $36,250 to $73,200, plus
• 28% on taxable income over $73,200 to $111,525, plus
• 33% on taxable income over $111,525 to $199,175, plus
• 35% on taxable income over $199,175 to $225,000, plus
• 39.6% on taxable income over $225,000.

Head of Household Filing Status
[Tax Rate Schedule Z, Internal Revenue Code section 1(b)] • 10% on taxable income from $0 to $12,750, plus
• 15% on taxable income over $12,750 to $48,600, plus
• 25% on taxable income over $48,600 to $125,450, plus
• 28% on taxable income over $125,450 to $203,150, plus
• 33% on taxable income over $203,150 to $398,350, plus
• 35% on taxable income over $398,350 to $425,000, plus
• 39.6% on taxable income over $425,000.
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Jan 14 UTC
And I was assuming the web site's "typical 40%" rate was accurate. Clearly it is not. :-)

So, yeah, seems all three are actually pretty comparable. It may be more in some arbitrary assumption the articles writers put on the US versus Canada or Sweden.
pangloss (363 D)
03 Jan 14 UTC
Yeah, it's also more complicated in Canada too, but I was trying to ball park figures to make my post more readable.

I think the lumping together of Canada and Sweden comes from the general aim of the article. It's more directed at people who agree with them, hence the guy saying "liberty" as if it meant some objective notion of right.

Oh, and you're right: the "40% tax on any decent income" is also wrong. According to that OECD spreadsheet, 40% is the top marginal rate and is levied after 18 million yen (around $170K in USD). The OECD Better Life Index Web site says the average income in Japan is around $24K USD (http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/japan/) or 2.5 million yen. That tax bracket gives a 10% marginal rate. Assuming "decent" is triple that, 7.5 million yen will get you a tax rate of 33% (although just under 7 million is at 23%).

Comparable rates in the USA would be 15% for the average, and my "decency" estimate would give a marginal rate of 25%.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
03 Jan 14 UTC
You can find stats on how much is paid in total taxes, which is probably the only way to try to compare apples to apples. Where I live, we have multiple overlapping property tax districts, state and local sales tax, state and national income tax, plus a few other taxes on earned income, including social security, state disability, etc. Then there are special national taxes on gasoline, tires, and a few other things. So yes, go directly to the studies that have already analyzed total tax burden and total social services provided and I think you'll find what you want.


9 replies
Orka (785 D)
02 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
A year old
I can't believe it's been a year since I've joined. It's been fast, but I feel like I've been here longer on this site than just a year. I like it here, and I will remain here for a very long time.
So, I want to hear other webdiplomacy members stories of the past and how much has changed.
45 replies
Open
basvanopheusden (2176 D)
02 Jan 14 UTC
Resign votes
It's been suggested often that there should be an option for players to concede their games without going into civil disorder and ruining the game for the others. Here's a mechanism that I think would be elegant, and not very difficult to implement. Suggestions welcome!
5 replies
Open
Mujus (1495 D(B))
03 Jan 14 UTC
Smashing one-liners from the Forum and games.
Post any unusually effective one-liners you have seen here.
2 replies
Open
Ancient Med Map Bug
My game is http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=132706 and I am Rome. I have an army at Tarraconensis and a fleet in the Ligurian Sea, and both are adjacent to Baleares. The army is able to move to Baleares and so is the fleet, but when I go to support one unit in with the other, it does not let me. Specifics are in my reply.
4 replies
Open
ForceIndia98 (100 D)
22 Dec 13 UTC
(+3)
Global Waming
Is it happening? Let the debate begin.
179 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
31 Dec 13 UTC
(+3)
Happy New Year, Kestas!
I know it became 2014 hours ago for you, but everyone seems to have forgotten that fact. So HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!
30 replies
Open
Gentlemaxwell (110 D)
02 Jan 14 UTC
All armies/fleets look the same?
Hello, I am new to the site. I am having trouble telling different players pieces apart. Is there a way to make the pieces the same color as the players country?
4 replies
Open
kasimax (243 D)
02 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
modern diplomacy gunboat replacement
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=131100

ukraine's gone into cd, relatively good position.
0 replies
Open
Bohonk (1918 D)
02 Jan 14 UTC
TAO
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-nsa-uses-powerful-toolbox-in-effort-to-spy-on-global-networks-a-940969.html

I would like a well thought out discussion on this. Take your time responding. What do you think?
1 reply
Open
daniyhungre (100 D)
02 Jan 14 UTC
I wanna get a good 24 hour gunboat game going.
Anyone is welcome to join gameID=132822 . I ask people to ready up though.
0 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
01 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
Comment of the Year
Did we do this yet? Don't believe so...

Just cuz - http://puu.sh/658Ms.png
6 replies
Open
VirtualBob (242 D)
27 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
This game is a travesty gameID=126952
@anlari -- As Italy you were really a jerk in this game. Have the balls to announce ahead of time that you are going for 34 centers ... don't just string the game out for 20 game years toying with your opponents who are playing by the normal rules. I wish there was a way I could ensure that I never end up in a game with you again.
82 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
01 Jan 14 UTC
(+2)
dip awards 2013 (7th annual pitirre awards)
the year is finalizing and the awards has come in so we can get an idea of who's who in 2013.
4 replies
Open
kasimax (243 D)
01 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
gunboat replacement needed
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=130977

we need a replacement for turkey, decent position.
4 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (1302 D)
01 Jan 14 UTC
Does anyone know....
.... what bo_sox does for a living?
14 replies
Open
ChaseAero (125 D)
01 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
Need Players
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=132748
0 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
27 Dec 13 UTC
Minimum Wage is Too Much
Read on....
165 replies
Open
VirtualBob (242 D)
01 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
Good German Position Available: gameID=130424
0 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
01 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
Happy New Year
As above
0 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
31 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
Good Morning, America!
Here is yet another corrupt cop story for your enjoyment.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/30/driver-arrested-for-having-empty-compartment-that-could-store-drugs/
16 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
14 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
How many French speakers do we have here?
I have been and still am taking French for a few years in high school, but it's piss poor. I'm thinking about setting up a French-only game where I can enjoy a little Diplomacy while immersing myself in the language for a few minutes a day.
71 replies
Open
HectorofTroy (266 D)
31 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
Indonesia
I'm playing a game of World diplomacy and I was wondering if Indonesia was special at all. First time on the big map, it would greatly appreciated if someone helps.
3 replies
Open
tendmote (100 D(B))
31 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
The Charge of Anti-Intellectualism
See Below…
10 replies
Open
Skittles (1014 D)
31 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
Need a Gunboat Replacement
gameID=132071

Get it while it's hot. Russia in a good position, was banned for being a multi (no signs of cheating in this particular game, though).
2 replies
Open
tendmote (100 D(B))
30 Dec 13 UTC
Anyone farm tilapia?
Anyone farm tilapia?
9 replies
Open
JECE (1322 D)
28 Dec 13 UTC
WebDiplomacy's Google Plus presence
https://plus.google.com/u/0/107707969097911044208/about
https://plus.google.com/u/0/101157213471750177452/about
Behold! Circle to thy heart's delight.
1 reply
Open
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