The sentence you take issue with is logically consistent, but not informative. Whether or not it is a loaded question or begging the question does not undermine the case that I spent the other 2600 words of my post on, and it does not detract from any of my previous posts. It exists at the end of what I have to say because it offers a general sense of direction for my post and my views, and an attempt at a broader consideration of the discussion we are having. It also serves to bring the conversation back to my argument about individualism so that I can round off my post. To continue this back-and-forth on one particular sentence would serve only as an exercise in pedantry and it distracts from the main issues I and others have raised.

"The reason is because they need to put in more effort if they want to overcome their limitations from their circumstances. Life is Not fair,"

Allow me to phrase the question differentlly: what, if anything, justifies the status quo as the correct normative outcome? Life is not fair, but why should it remain as such, especially when we have the capacity to change it? To say "that's just the way it is; some things will never change" doesn't pass for an argument.

@pangloss: i never sai I undermines the case, doing that would be fallacious. I just felt like pointing out that it was fallacious. I believe It should e changed. I just do not have a solution and as a complete solution does not exist I am going off of what is currently going on.

@draugnar and pangloss: honestly the only reason that I'm still doing hi sis in response to your posts. I will gladly drop an issue unless it is brought up again.

I think we've pretty much exhausted this subject--or at least, we've exhausted me. I'm fine with leaving it here.

Ok. Thanks.

He has to get the last word in.

Get the fucking government out of the way of the free market economy so all the pent-up cash waiting to be invested can create American jobs and you won't have to worry about fucking minimum wage, because businesses will be *competing* for the workers.

THAT is how you raise the fucking minimum wage.

Oh no ..... what have the govt being doing to the free market economy this time?

TAXES....REGULATION....don't be a dolt, Nigee. Your Alaskan-Kenyan wife likes it when you keep it real.

Oh my god!! Nigee's wife is the love child of Sarah Palin and Barack Obama!!!!

Anyway - this isn't about the discussion. This is about the last word.

And you last words are as stupid as your first! "happy new year cretin"

OK so without taxes and regulation the free market economy would flourish ...... is there anyone else on this forum that really believes that?
Krellin your need to over-simplify every debate does not work with the more complicated stuff, some things need big-boy thinking

I just had an epiphany. Anyone who suggests that things would be better, that problems would be solved, if only thing X was "out of the way", is an assclown. I gotta go to the airport but I'll mull this over on the plane. This puts Krellin and Putin33 in the same boat (where they belong, together.) I gotta gather evidence. Getting "taxes and regulation" out of the way, getting "private interests" out of the way, etc... NONSENSE! A reasonable person WORKS AROUND obstacles, doesn't try to re-invent a world without them.

Nigee - you idiotically simplistic belief in government as the solution to all problems clearly does not work. Sometime you need to put on your big boy pants and be responsible for yourself, instead of sucking at the tit of your government for every solution.

One only needs to look at history, at the ebb and flow of economics, to know that there is a point at which an intrusive government is a detriment to the economy.

There are a couple of primary factors affecting businesses - taxes and regulations. These are also global factors - so yes, in a more complex discussion you look at the taxes and regulations globally, as an oppressive European market impacts the US economy, etc. But in the end, how much capital corporations and individuals are allowed to keep -- and spend -- is determined by the tax rate. With lower taxes, there is more cash, and with more cash, people spend more. Oh my god!!!! what a concept.

Regulations are a determining factor on prices *to an extent*. My automobile is full of devices that are there to satisfy various regulations, be they emissions components or safety items. I'm not saying these are bad things - but to deny that a significant chunk of the price of your vehilce (more than you probably suspect, as ill-informed as you are) is devoted to meeting regulations, as opposed to meeting the purpose of the vehicle. (to get someone from point A to point B). Lower regulations, you lower the cost of a product, and thereby increase at least the potential for sales.

When the government wants less of something - say smoking - they TAX it. It humorous (actually, it's truly pathetic) that morons like you, who embrace government in all things, don't believe your own government. THEY understand that when you want less of something you tax it....but you don't? Moron.

Tendy - you, too, are apparently too ignorant? No...just flat out stupid...to apparently grasp the basic affectors in an economy. So tell me, braniac, how do you stimulate an economy? Are you another kensian moron that think the trillions and trillion of "stimulus spending" under Obama just wasn't enough? One of those idiots that lives by political ideology instead of actually opening your eyes to see the world around you?

Your idiotic notion that you "get around" obstacles like "taxes and regulations" simply makes you a moron - you are too stupid to see that you have actually made my point. Yes...Apple has "gotten around" taxes and regulations in the US. They did this by off-shoring their manufacturing, saving them billions and billions in taxes and regulations.

So thanks for making my point for me, moron.

@krellin everyone says theyd do more with no taxes because they want to pay less taxes. shit, any time i get a chance, i vote for lower taxes. shit, though, taxes doesnt really change what anyone actually does. nobody stops moving to new york or san francisco because of the taxes. dropping taxes to zero wont bring jobs back from china, because it would have to be so many times more productive here to make it even that taxes arent even a rounding error. yeah, some people would be piling up more cash with lower taxes, but taxation at current levels really does not change anyones course of action.