I think this is the point where you just dissolve the union.

Sorry WI and MI that is Wisconsin and Michigan.

1. Trump couldn't have won the election, if he didn't draw support from a LOT Obama 2012 supporters. Race did play a part, but it is WAY overhyped

2. Clearly you need lessons in economics, if anything it was a social hatred of the north that they weren't independent, because economic shifts in the south had a strong resurgence in the 20s. They're more hating of wall st failing in 29 from an economic basis than of slaves being taken away

3. Many slaves stayed on as farmhands, and output didn't decrease in the same way that profits did. It was an economic readjustment, but not nearly as calamitous as people would have you believe. It only looked that was b/c of industrialism in the north which comparatively looked bad, but in actuality the south came back strong. it's the breadbasket market that hurt them.

4. The south ONLY HAD a great economy b/c their labor costs were next to nothing. "Oh no, we're not rich now because you took our SLAVES." fuck that.

5. ABRAHAM LINCOLN WAS KILLED BEFORE RECONSTRUCTION. dumbass

I believe that the low information voter is smart enough to know that he is not doing well economically. He just doesn't know the reason why. Given the Republican propensity for trickle down economics, it seems that the Democratic Party would offer more relief. However, the Republicans, who obstructed the Democratic agenda for so long, have actually convinced voters that that the lack of progress was the Dems fault. The solution should have been to remove the obstruction -- not to give the Repubs a chance. Democrats failed to get this information to the low information voter. As a consequence, these low info voters will likely be disappointed by Trump and the Republicans. I hope I'm wrong. If Trump wants to drain the swamp, may he start with Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell.

The Republicans will keep blaming the Democrats as the situation gets worse. After all the last major recession started under Bush with a Republican Congress. They spent to get reelected instead of using the wasted money to improve the economy.

Bridge to Nowhere instead of repairing essential failing bridges. Because a storm that would have stopped the Alaskan ferry would have made driving across a long bridge hazardous even if they could keep it cleared.

I'm still yet to see a solid economic FOR Obamacare. gov't expenditures they're matching expected output, BUT: the common person is dying. Even the Clintons started admitting how bad things have gotten. You can't blame the Republicans on that. You can say "they should have expanded Obamacare in the states" but if they did that, after 5 years: the state has to pick up the tab. It has been a mess.

that said: I'm not sure Trump can fix it, but he can sure as hell change it

Obama's foreign policy has been pathetic, especially with conflicts in the middle east. this is more the Obama's regime, especially the State Department, but he's not blameless. Point the finger at Bush all you want (the real roots go back to Reagan, and some branches even further back to Eisenhower) but Obama has put forth many plans, that have failed.

that said: I'm not sure Trump knows what he is doing and more than him

Overall economics, Obama has not been brilliant. The Fed is too scared to raise rates, b/c the federal debt is so large. right now we have about 2% on the national debt and it's taking up 6% of our national budget. imagine if we returned to standard 6-8% rates. We'd have to cut spending: bad for public sector, increase taxes: bad for public sector and investment, or inflate the money supply: bad for investment. we're in this scenario b/c of the Democrats end-all say-all idea that spending large sums of cash is the only way to get the economy back on track. Yes unemployment is down, but employment costs are up. It's not profitable to expand, and internal investment is giving way to riskier bets on a volatile stock market BEAUTIFULLY finished with Oil prices which have unhinged themselves from manufacturing and energy trends, making things even more difficult to control.

that said: Trump's only idea to increase internal investment, is to raise money through tariffs on foreign investment, protecting our industries, but lowering opportunities for large amounts of capital for expansion. a basic lag effect should hit our stocks HARD, and there's little evidence it will work long run.


Don't blame only one party. Blame them both

Condescension you know nothing about politics or history.

The civil war wasn't about slavery, it was about preventing the secession of the southern states. (who I will grant seceded because they felt that their rights, in particular slavery, weren't being respected, however, that wasn't the main issue.)

@Condescension.... You do know that Lincoln was assassinated, so just run me through the bit where there's any logic in your expectations that dead guys can solve problems in the real world

Shit, there's so many problems, and only what, nine billion humans alive.. Oh let's get the dead to solve our problems, way to go condescendin .... bang off the prayers gang

@Pompeii this is America, why do I need to know any of that to scream my opinion as loud as I can into the void?

@Major I am not saying that he is reponsible for fixing our problems today. I am saying that historical people can fuck over people who live generations down the line. Like what we're all doing today! :)

What I am saying is that buying out slaves rather than seizing them in an effort to cripple the southern economy was bullshit. The south would never have wanted to succeed if he had just paid them off.

Hilarious.

Trump won by crushing Clinton in the Midwest, because he gave a shit about the disaffected working class there and Clinton didn't.

Your reaction?

Drum up more tired lazy stereotypes of the South, which outside of Florida routinely supports Republicans every electoral cycle and which doesn't have a particularly large number of electoral votes in it.

Your username is amusingly appropriate.

Tyrox is right the Union went to war to preserve the Union, and I suspect that Lincoln would have made compromises on slavery with the Southern States in the crisis before the Civil War to have maintained the Union and avoid war. Let me put it out there that I am no expert in this area of history, and not a US citizen. But I have some inkling from books read long ago that a compromise of some form was offered to the Southern States along the lines that slavery would be allowed in a limited number of states where it existed, but would not be allowed in all other states, particularly the new and proposed new states in the South west eg Texas ?
But tyrocks is right, and condensers initial proposition is ludicrous anyway

@PE please allow me to be pedantic, I do not dispute your comments, but Trump convinced enough of those disaffected working class in the Midwest that he "gives a shit" ( what charming expressions you "septic tanks" use )
Whether be actually cares, and can solve the problems causing that disaffection are questionable, but Trump definitely cared about getting their votes & played to that audience and it's worked out nicely for him. How it works out for those disaffected working class people who voted for him remains to be seen.

This isn't satire. Maybe you could blame Johnson for letting the south back in. They should have been turned into a colony and only allowed back in very slowly when they'd given real equality to African Americans if at all

Who you accusing of being satirical Ogion ?