If you'd present your argument in a way that didn't call me a retard or a dumbass I might actually listen, but you, like the rest of the political nuts that think screaming their heads off makes people listen, don't get that I don't care what you have to say when you talk like that. And by political nuts, just so you don't twist my words, I didn't refer to either party. I just said political nuts.

This is a somewhat narrow view of what it means to analyze and explain the actions of horrific criminals. You can still assign moral weight to the actions of individuals even if you develop explanations for the action. So even if you can point out brain chemistry, social and developmental factors that contributed to a horrific action, an individual with somewhat rational faculties still made a choice at some point.

Whether or not you believe in free will, you can still hold the mind that made the decision to be guilty in some way.

I don't think I have to point out the flaws in assigning this commentary to your interpretation of Obama's ideological assumptions.

Did I use the word "dumbass" or "moron" Hmmm.....no....no I didn't. It must be your GUILTY CONSCIENCE...

Did I "scream"....I have made a simple argument that if you believe Obama is correct about capitalism...then you can not hold this killer guilty....it isn't his fault.

Now man up and defend or support...but your fucking whining post was meaningless.

Friednly Sword....PLEASE point out the flaws in my argument!!!! *IF* a businessman that builds a business can not take credit for his work....which is a UNIQUE thing, because MOST people do not create businesses....that's why they are the 1%.....Then in that case...you had bettter say that socipaths....for which there are FAR greater than 1% of the society that fall in to this category...are CERTAINLY not at fault...but are just a result of...what? that bitchy 5th grade teacher...that angry politician....that Rap star...that hollywood movie that glorified violence.

Give me a break....have the courage of your Obama convictions! There is ZERO inconsistency in this argument. If people are not to be proud of their individual accomplishments because they are NOT individual accomplishments....then the equally unique actions of a murderer....which are NOT unique at all....are not to be held accountable to the individual....

http://factcheck.org/2012/07/you-didnt-build-that-uncut-and-unedited/

Come on, krellin. A third-grader could take this "argument" apart.

If you watch the full clip, you would understand that Obama was talking about the infrastructure which allows people the opportunity to start their own business.

I see AWB is at least 3 minutes ahead of me.

This is what happens when your political ideology comes from political talking points.

AverageWhiteBoy....man up, bitch. You and EVERYONE knows *exactly* what Obama said. Your apologist link says, "Obama inartfully stated..." BULLSHIT he "inartfully" said anything. He said ***exactly** what he intended to say, and *everyone* knows what he meant. The Leftists listening applauded, because it cut down business-owners, whom he suggested do not really earn their wealth....and the Right-wingers called it for what it was...an attack on ambition, on sacrifice....

You, sir, are a pathetic apoligist....unable to even defend him yourself, but instead link to an article that in and of itself tacitly admits that he said what he meant. There was no "inartful" statement....these are ***carefully planned*** speeches....and Obama said ***exactly** what he meant to say. Grow a pair and admit this.

Welcome to the mute list, we've got fun and games.

Another liberal can't stand the heat....can't make a valid counter-argument...takes his ball and goes home. Pathetic.

Hence why nobody listens to you. You think it's your genius ideology that makes us tired of you. No, it's your inability to think about my views as my views. Instead, you view them as not yours. That's why we don't listen to you. Back to my hidey-hole from the genius that is krellin.

OK Krellin, I will humour you and give you my analysis. There are two main problems I have with your assertions.

One is relevance. Whether or not Obama believes that business owners do not deserve full credit for their creations (and whether or not people who prefer him to Romney are somehow obligated to believe the same) it just doesn't follow that this same belief necessitates believing that criminals are innocent of crimes. Why? Firstly, the process of creating a business and creating wealth is inherently more communistic and cooperative than the process of killing people or destroying things. The theatre shooter did not get permits from other people, take out a loan from other people, hire other people, or get advice from other people in the commission of his attack.
Secondly, the concept of justice is a far more encompassing principle than the principle of credit. I tend to believe that people should be entitled to the fruits of their labour, but I even more strongly believe that a society without justice, one without a clear demarcation of immoral acts, is one that is morally bankrupt. I think it is far worse to have a lack of justice than a lack of properly distributed credit.

The second problem I have is that I simply do not agree that Obama or the majority of Democratic supporters (I am not one by virtue of being non-American) actually believe that people deserve no credit for creating businesses. I mean come on! The democratic party is a massive supporter of a capitalistic society. In any other western society it would be considered neoconservative or somewhat libertarian on economic issues. What Obama is clearly saying here is that your success is built on the back of society, so give society writ large some credit. Given that there is a strong aversion to giving credit to lower classes in America, I think it's a laudable thing to point out, especially since "small-business owners" and "job creators" are claimed to be heroes all the damn time on American television. Your small business (or large corporation) needs institutions, infrastructure, consumers, partners, and capital to operate. ALL of these things are provided by other people, many of whom live in poverty. So maybe cut them some slack?

And I quote, from the same speech that you so dislike:

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

What a radical statement!!!!

In any case, you better get ready to do some more venting, because Obama's campaign is going far better than Romney's. I'm pretty confident that everyone's favourite communist Muslim TelePrompter-reading Machiavellian authoritarian is going to win a second term.

Oh taxes, the bane of every Republican... but not so much as for Romney... ^^