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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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SantaClausowitz (360 D)
15 Dec 11 UTC
The best diplomacy messages
I went over the messages sent by the best players i played and I found.
23 replies
Open
☺ (1304 D)
15 Dec 11 UTC
An open letter to all of you
Dear all of you,

Can't we keep this bullshit confined to just one thread?
Thanks, Smiley.
23 replies
Open
FatherSnitch (476 D(B))
15 Dec 11 UTC
Dan Wheldon accident report
http://www.indycar.com/news/show/55-izod-indycar-series/51041-accident-report-cites-and-39-perfect-stormand-39/
1 reply
Open
MrcsAurelius (3051 D(B))
15 Dec 11 UTC
We need a replacement because of a ban - world game
Hey all! We need a replacement because of a CD, banned player (not a cheater) in a pretty awesome world game with very good players (not me ;) ). The country we need replaced is the USA and he is in a very good position, the game is in autumn 2002 retreat phase.
4 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
15 Dec 11 UTC
10 Legends, 1 Future: If We Had To Repopulate The Human Race...
...and you could choose ANY 10 human beings to ever live to redo it...to pass on their intellect and genes and being--and yes, I know Einstein+Curie +/= Super Science Baby, just go with this "re-imagining" of how it works, it's all in fun--who would you choose?
And the ration of XX to XY MUST be 50/50 or 60/40...no 9 men-one-queen relationships! ;) So...who would you pick to create Humanity 2.0?
30 replies
Open
Sargmacher (0 DX)
15 Dec 11 UTC
An Open Letter to Babak
In reply to his open letter 'Dear Sarg'.
5 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
15 Dec 11 UTC
Why do all my friends get banned?
The mods banned another one of my friends : (

Does anyone want to take over for Germany (again)? He's in a really decent position. gameID=74265
6 replies
Open
Hellenic Riot (1626 D(G))
07 Dec 11 UTC
An excuse to avoid studying
I'm in need of one, and finally have enough spare time to play on this site again. So time for a comeback game. Classic, WTA. Medium pot (for me, so between 50-150). Phase length can be decided but preferably between 1-2 days.
Anyone up for it?
32 replies
Open
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
15 Dec 11 UTC
Draugnar forgot his pills?
I see he has completely went bersek.

+1 the reason(s) that you think caused that.
10 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
15 Dec 11 UTC
Put all the bullshit here
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101009140748/uncyclopedia/images/3/34/Bullshit.jpg
0 replies
Open
Darwyn (1601 D)
15 Dec 11 UTC
Troll Science
step 1 - wear bullet proof glove in left hand
step 2 - grab pistol with right hand
step 3 - shoot pistol into left hand
FLIGHT!
8 replies
Open
basvanopheusden (2176 D)
15 Dec 11 UTC
Sitter needed! Please help me...
I'm unexpectedly going on a vacation, and I'm looknig for a sitter for my one game. The game is almost over, so it will not take a huge effort to finish. Can someone please help me?
3 replies
Open
icepebble (109 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
High replacement bets
Hi
Somewhat new to this site. I've helped put as a replacement elsewhere and would not be against doing so here but I get turned off with what seems to me to an inappropiately high bet for terrible positions. I assume there are difficulties making this better. Thoughts?
6 replies
Open
Baskineli (100 D(B))
13 Dec 11 UTC
Capitalism and D's
I like the connection. The richer (and better Diplomacy players) get richer, while the poorer (and worse Diplomacy players) get poorer. Maybe, after all, D's IS the best ranking system?
19 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
15 Dec 11 UTC
Font
Story follows
16 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
15 Dec 11 UTC
H. Kissinger's Favorites
Following up on "H. Kissinger's Associates", I am going to open up "H. Kissinger's Associates"

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=74841
6 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
05 Dec 11 UTC
Free Society or Totalitarianism?
This latest law is really the straw that broke the camels back.
56 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
15 Dec 11 UTC
i want to show you something
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=E7DKUC2WkmI
3 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
15 Dec 11 UTC
OK. Everybody take care.
1 reply
Open
BosephJennett (866 D)
15 Dec 11 UTC
Retreat rules clarification
Can someone retreat to the spot from which you attacked them?
Example: Austrian A Vie attacks Italian A Tri (A Vie supported by A Bud). A Tri forced to retreat. Can they retreat into the now vacant Vie SC?
2 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
In Case You Missed My Last Three Threads...
Yes, I am back...but only until Christmas Break is over.
1 reply
Open
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
15 Dec 11 UTC
I think the forum needs to lighten up a bit...
Post some good videos to make me, and the rest of the high-strung Dippers, laugh.
4 replies
Open
Babak (26982 D(B))
15 Dec 11 UTC
MODS
Can one of the Mods please check the mod Email account. I have a request that may need to be resolved in under 2 hours.

Apologies for taking up forum space to make this request.
74 replies
Open
basvanopheusden (2176 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
Turns out, world smartest people are Asians. Why would that be?
In one the numerous "political debate" threads haunting this forum, Fasces posted a list of countries by average IQ. The entire top 7 is Asian, and on 10 there is Mongolia (which is weird, because you never hear anything about Mongolia). Why do they score so well?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_IQ_estimates_from_Lynn_and_Vanhanen_(2002,_2006)

Maybe the Asian educational system is better geared towards making those kind of IQ tests. Or their educational system is just better. Or maybe they have a genetic disposition to be smarter.

I just found out that many of the countries on that list do not actually have data. The IQ posted is simply the average over all neighbouring countries. Which is bullocks. So North Korea and Mongolia should not be taken into account.
ulytau (541 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
You might start with the wikipedia articles about the books where the authors present the data, they already cite some basic reasons.
Good suggestion!

Ok, so according to the wiki article (IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations), the test was very controversial, and from a scientific point of view, rather unsatisfactory.

I can understand a correlation with GDP, but that doesn't explain why the Asians come out on top. I mean, economically speaking, Europe, US, and Russia aren't all that bad either. Or India, for that matter.

If it is genetic, then that's a pretty cool conclusion (and something I've never known).
orathaic (1009 D(B))
14 Dec 11 UTC
Culture. I'm putting my money on an emphasis on skills which lead to better performance in IQ tests. Not just an education system, a culture where parents place value on such things.

girls tend to perform worse in maths, and something like the top 1% of maths scores (in the US in the 80s, in a certain age range) were 13:1 males over females.

But when they re-did these tests in the 00s it was more like 3:1, and in other countries which are considered to have much more equality between the genders the girl do even better. (denmark, sweden, and norway) while in Iceland he girls actually outperform the boys.

I'm assuming this is due to a perception among people that maths is required for the kinds of jobs a man will get, and girls don't really need to bother.

The myth that men are better at maths and logical reasoning has been going around since some time in the 80s, and I think that makes for a self-reinforcing piece of information...
ulytau (541 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
If it is genetic, there's the issue that is mentioned in the article, namely immigration. France or Germany are much more heterogenous than Japan or South Korea so I guess it would be difficult to reach the pure genetic result.

orathaic, I think it depends on the math in question. Men have higher standard deviation for IQ, so they contain more idiots and geniuses alike. Which is I'm with Summers on the issue of gender inequality in the highest echelons of physics. On the level of math school tests are about, I don't see any reason why girls should score differently than in any other subject, i.e. better than boys.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
14 Dec 11 UTC
'Which is I'm with Summers on the issue of gender inequality in the highest echelons of physics. '

i'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess that you think that the gender inequality in physics is because some people find the higher echelons of physics to be harder, and this is good because we only want the best physicists?

I'm not sure what you meant, but this is an attitude i've come across while talking to physicists...
ulytau (541 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
In the last sentence, I meant reason inherent to their natural capabilities. Social reasons are obvious.
carpenter (645 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
I need to agree with orathiac: depends a lot on culture, be happy you (and people around you) don't need to worry a lot about your primary needs (food, housing and water).
To get to the main point of this thread: IQ is not a good measure for 'smartness'. It might be a fair hint for intelligence, but certainly not proof.
(And it's not clear to what type of intelligence both you and TC are referring to.)
ulytau (541 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
More or less what you said. The hardest disciplines of physics are one of the few places where the higher variability of IQ means men on average have the edge. Although it's a niche branch of science with little following, which surely amplifies whatever sentiment against women in science there is, I believe the gender inequality present actually reflects the average capabilities for doing it since being 3 standard deviations above average IQ might not still be enough to bring something useful on the table. Plus a push for group equality in such an intrinsically individualistic environment looks like a misplaced priority to me. There are more pressing gender problems out there than in a sector with few thousand worldwide participants.
Rommeltastic (1111 D(B))
14 Dec 11 UTC
As a Canadian still in school, I would like to point out that I'm in classes almost exclusively with Asian students - they're smarter and far more dedicated than my Caucasian colleagues.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
14 Dec 11 UTC
@rommel, are they more motivated and thus better because of family pressure, or are they less lazy because of their genes??

@Ulytau, i think there is a problem in maths education in, at least Ireland but perhaps globally, and it is not making the study of physics an easier.

People are turned off studying physics in the first place because other sciences are considered easier (with less maths) which is crazy because you will still need great mathematical skill in almost any field in the very least to understand the statistical analysis of your data, or to do decent models of complex multi-variable dynamic systems...

I think the fact that physicists are the only ones training in some of these skills is a much greater problem... Never-the-less, while i don't agree with the elitism of he position, i do think that addressing the underlying problems with education would do a lot more for gender inequality than any other policy i can imagine to tackle the issue directly...
Nelhybel (280 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
North Korea?
Fasces349 (0 DX)
14 Dec 11 UTC
IQ by race:
Oriental: 107
Caucasian: 101
Negroid: 84

just sayin...
Fasces349 (0 DX)
14 Dec 11 UTC
As for education:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment

Singapore and Shanghai have the best eduction systems, and highest IQs...
Hydro Globus (100 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
I believe it is genetic. It must be no accident that even though civilization proper probably comes from around the Mediterranian Sea, many inventions were originally made in the now-Chinese kingdoms, Korea or Japan. They were also the first ones to calculate things like solar eclipses (or the Mesoamerican people, sources conflict), but they were late on the human side of progress: for example, the Revolution never rose there (neither of those are empires now, true, but that's because of Europeans). What gave us (caucasians, oh how I hate that word) the edge is probably the constant warfare (or, most prudently, the constant threat of warfare: usually, there was peace but you couldn't afford to look weak.

Anyway, I've long since concluded that East-Asian people (okay, let's call them oriental) are genetically better equipped to be intelligent and we shall all bow to our Japanese masters. :)
Fasces349 (0 DX)
14 Dec 11 UTC
"Culture. I'm putting my money on an emphasis on skills which lead to better performance in IQ tests. Not just an education system, a culture where parents place value on such things.

girls tend to perform worse in maths, and something like the top 1% of maths scores (in the US in the 80s, in a certain age range) were 13:1 males over females.

But when they re-did these tests in the 00s it was more like 3:1, and in other countries which are considered to have much more equality between the genders the girl do even better. (denmark, sweden, and norway) while in Iceland he girls actually outperform the boys.

I'm assuming this is due to a perception among people that maths is required for the kinds of jobs a man will get, and girls don't really need to bother.

The myth that men are better at maths and logical reasoning has been going around since some time in the 80s, and I think that makes for a self-reinforcing piece of information..."

Arguments made for most:
Genetics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ




Culture:
This I didn't read online but the Oriental cultures statistically have better work ethics because of their environment, which makes them work harder at stuff like math.

The best example I can think of proving culture and 'nurture' effects IQ as much as nature is sports and dates:
31% of NHL hockey players are born in January, February or March, while only 20% are born in October, November or December. Is this because kids born in the winter are naturally better hockey players? No, this is because of how our child hockey teams are set up.

Everyone in the league (for the 4 year olds) have to be born in the same year. So someone born on January 1st will be the oldest person playing, and someone born on December 31st will be the youngest. Being almost a year older then your opponents, you'll of course be better then them and the difference between a 4 year old and a 3 year old is massive.

Because of our system, those born in January will be better at a younger age (only due to size advantages and not genetic) and so will get slightly more 'ice time' (playing time) cause coaches want their team to win.

Over the years they'll get more practice and as a result have a higher chance of becoming pro-hockey players.

Now to go into more detail about Orients vs Caucasians:
Back when agriculture was first 'discovered' Asian crops take on average 3 times more man hours then European crops.This meant that in Asia, if you didn't work hard you starved to death, making a culture of hard work at young ages encouraged (whether this was genetic or just culture is debatable)




Cheating and Racist bias:
insert random article explaining how biologists who report differences in race and IQ or any other difference other then skin colour on races HAS to be racist and bend their results to reflect that.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
14 Dec 11 UTC
@hydro: The Europeans only took over Asia for 2 reasons:
1. Stagnation and Conservation: Edo and Ming are famous for two certain policies that killed Asia's domination in the world:
Racism and defending the status quo.

The cultures set up there forced you to be whatever your father was. If your father was a farmer you had to be a farmer and you had to marry the daughter of a farmer. This meant that the poor remained poor no matter what, and the wealthy remained wealthy no matter what, meaning that there was little to no demand for change, and they were heavily against progress (historians even argued that China discoved the new world first, but the Ming Dynasty was reluctant to capitalize on the discovery, a mistake not repeated by our Spanish friends.)

Europe was like this in the dark ages, however we switched out of this system and went for progress, and the time of the Renaissance began shortly following this switch. Now what caused this switch? See point 2:

2. This one is an idea taken by my economics teacher when explaining the origins of capitalism in economics, an idea that is so true and fascinating (IMO):

The year to remember, 1348. The first year, in human history, that the world population declined rather then increased. This decrease was the result of one disease, the Black Death. By 1350, 30-60% of Europeans were dead, and it targeted certain occupations (Merchants and Labourers) more then others (Nobility). This placed a huge economic crisis in Europe:
Merchants were no longer willing to trade from village to village cause the tax burden (from toll booths) and risks of highway robbery were high.
Labourers (Blacksmiths, Cobblers etc.) were no longer willing to making things, cause they were all dead.

As a result, nobles and kings agreed to some of histories first trade agreements, and allowed for emigration (theory was if there were 10 cobblers in Town A, and only 0 in Town B 5 of them would move to Town B cause they could make more money there (more customers, less competitors).

The job shortages effected different towns in different ways because of how the structure was set up. Your a cobbler, so all you kids are cobblers, all your wife's brothers are cobblers. Odds are if 1 cobbler gets sick, so does the rest of them.

This first freedom of movement and deregulation allowed the European markets to thrive and allowed them to take over the world (literally). The European encouragement of trade was the only reason Columbus went on his famous journey to the west (look where that left us).

In other words, the black plague is the only reason I can brag about Caucasians being the superior race (all the weak Caucasians died in the black plague, strengthening our gene pool)

To clarify on one point:
I am not suggesting Europe was the founder of trade, however prior to the plague there were multiple toll booths on each highway, making it expensive to travel, Europe reducing that expense built the culture that encouraged trade, exploitation etc. that allowed Europe to succeed.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
14 Dec 11 UTC
Also to help illustrate this reasonings of this thread:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/National_IQ_Lynn_Vanhanen_2006_IQ_and_Global_Inequality.png

Purple=IQ>105
Blue=IQ between 90 and 105, with darker being higher
Yellow=IQ between 80 and 90 with darker being LOWER
Red=IQ below 75 with darker being lower

Subsaharan Africa is by far the worst, and Asia is by far the best, With Europe and North America being on the high level and Latin America, Middle East and India being in the mid range.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
14 Dec 11 UTC
When talking about the heritability of IQ, please note:

Heritability (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Heritability)
2 : the proportion of observed variation in a particular trait (as intelligence) that can be attributed to inherited genetic factors in contrast to environmental ones

note the word variation.

The number of fingers on a human's hand has almost no heritability. The variation in the number of fingers is usually related the number of factory machines which is chopping off fingers in industrial accidents, this is not a genetic factor.

Now please re-read everything you know about heritability with this definition in mind because mis-understanding of this word, and it's use by science, help fuel myths about... oh basically everything we can inherit (like the number of fingers on your hand, definitely an inherited trait... even if it is not heritable)
Thucydides (864 D(B))
14 Dec 11 UTC
OP asked: "Why do they score so well?"

Because of flawed testing mechanisms.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
14 Dec 11 UTC
@orathaic:

Say I had 10 fingers and lost 3 of them in an accident. My genes would still tell me I have 10 fingers, because that is what I was born with, and it was physical damage, not a genetic one, that effected the count.

As a result my child will probably have 10 fingers, but say I had for example Dystrophy. A genetic disorder which results in the loss of limbs and muscles, and because of that I had only 7 fingers. Odds are my kids will have less then 10 as well...
Baskineli (100 D(B))
14 Dec 11 UTC
The question is whether "smartness" defined by IQ, and if two populations have the same average IQ, but one has a much wider spread (higher standard deviation), which is considered smarter?

And to drop the bomb:
"At least 185 Jews and people of half- or three-quarters-Jewish ancestry have been awarded the Nobel Prize, accounting for 22% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2011, and constituting 36% of all US recipients during the same period. In the research fields of Chemistry, Economics, Physics, and Physiology/Medicine, the corresponding world and US percentages are 27% and 39%, respectively. Among women laureates in the four research fields, the Jewish percentages (world and US) are 38% and 50%, respectively. (Jews currently make up approximately 0.2% of the world's population and 2% of the US population.)

Chemistry (32 prize winners, 20% of world total, 29% of US total)
Economics (28 prize winners, 41% of world total, 53% of US total)
Literature (13 prize winners, 12% of world total, 27% of US total)
Physics (49 prize winners, 26% of world total, 37% of US total)
Physiology or Medicine (54 prize winners, 27% of world total, 40% of US total) "


*I have edited out the Nobel Peace Prize winners.
**Source: http://www.jinfo.org/Nobel_Prizes.html
Its not because jews are smarter. Its because jews have a culture of learning and pushing children to learn. Much like Asians in the US do as well.
Hydro Globus (100 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
Erm... winning the Nobel Prize isn't solely dependant on IQ, so I don't think it is more accurate a measure as simple IQ-tests.
Mr_rb (594 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
Nevertheless is intriguing how such a small population can have such significant contribution to science. Remarkable... even when considering their culture is more focused on educational performance.

Re Asians and IQ tests, I doubt genes are of significant influence. The educational system and culture of the country play a much bigger role. I've studied/worked with plenty of Asians and their studying/working mentality is incomparable to the mentality of people in most Western countries. I wouldn't say education in Asia is necessarily better though, since many Asians seem less willing/able to take initiative or 'think outside the box', which really holds them back when work becomes more than just academics. Probably, as usual, the optimal system lies somewhere in the middle.
Hyperion (1029 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
The origin of this statement (World's smartest people are _______) is questionable and whoever posted this is probably Caucasian or Negroid.
lmao.
It is time to wake up and open your eyes white boy. IQ's meaning is derived from a conformed group of idiots which became widely spread, making the significance of IQ more broader than it's actual gist.
Maybe it's time for you to rethink what it means to be smart.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
14 Dec 11 UTC
@Fasces349

yes, that is correct, but the majority of variant in number of fingers is not due to genetic factors, it is due to environmental ones - that means this trait has a very low heritability.

IQ is highly dependant on culture and education.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
14 Dec 11 UTC
You can also see a relationship between writing proficiency level and region

http://cdn.okcimg.com/blog/real_stuff/ReadingLevelByReligionSeriousnessLegend.png

(this is based on user profiles at a popular dating website)

Culture has an impact here aswell. Though you only 'see' this sort of pattern if you are looking for it, and how important you think it is really depends on what you consider important. (so race being the most important criteria in IQ seems more important to racists, and religion being...)
ulytau (541 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
"Singapore and Shanghai have the best eduction systems, and highest IQs..."

Which is why the Chinese education system faces harsh critique even from the Chinese executives in need of talents or multinationals looking for quality staff there. The whole system is geared towards scoring high in tests. Given the longest history of meritocracy in public service in the world, of which exams were an important part, such a development is rather disturbing for China. Still, it's a system where the kids get solid foundations in all kinds of subjects which doesn't apply that much in Europe of North America.

I don't know about Singapore.
Alpha Rho (0 DX)
15 Dec 11 UTC
Some of the arguments presented in this thread show the lack of utility of an IQ test or the fact that environmental factors are more improtant than genetic ones. If the West was able to conquer China despite its lower IQ, then IQ is not a solid indicator of success or environmental factors are more important than positive heritable traits like IQ. Either way IQ is less important than other things.


30 replies
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
14 Dec 11 UTC
New game.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=74801
The game is for trolls and semi-trolls. It is anon and global chat so will be focused on humorously trolling on one another anonymously. Then in the end we find out who's whom.
19 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
11 Dec 11 UTC
Conservalationalist
This series of games has been paused without me voting pause.

What the hell?
61 replies
Open
Frank (100 D)
12 Dec 11 UTC
TEBOW
I have never started a religion thread on here before.
15 replies
Open
Fasces349 (0 DX)
14 Dec 11 UTC
Chine has a military base in Texas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKfuS6gfxPY


Get them out! Stop the war effort!
6 replies
Open
Darwyn (1601 D)
14 Dec 11 UTC
I may have to try these...
http://www.gametrailers.com/users/whutthephuck/gamepad

Discuss these possibilities...lol
1 reply
Open
Victorious (768 D)
13 Dec 11 UTC
Fox bashing
Fox and statistics isnt a good combination
17 replies
Open
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