how i shot web

so you're saying that the players are bad. you haven't said a single line about any scoring system.

He's scum lynch him

Some PPSC numbers:

PPSC with Winner
Winner: 18 SCs = 18
Loser1: 15 SCs = 15
Loser2: 1 SC = 1 point

PPSC with DrawA
DrawA-1: 17 SCs = 34/3 ~11.33
DrawA-2: 16 SCs = 34/3 ~11.33
DrawA-3: 1 SC = 34/3 ~11.33

PPSC with DrawB
DrawB-1: 12 SCs = 34/3 ~11.33
DrawB-2: 11 SCs = 34/3 ~11.33
DrawB-3: 11 SCs = 34/3 ~11.33

How does such a scoring system make any sense at all?

I would like someone who favors keeping PPSC to explain why they think the scoring system makes any sense at all. The only explanation ever given is "award my ally" or "strong second".

Is there anything more substantive than that?

I would like someone who favors keeping PPSC to explain why they think the scoring system makes any sense at all. The only explanation ever given is "award my ally" or "strong second".

Is there anything more substantive than that?

Al, care to talk numbers?

So clearly, Al puts a high priority on winning and derides drawing.

Won: 11 ( 5% )
Drawn: 120 ( 54% )

Got it.

Unranked > SoS > DDS > PPSC

Why can't we all just get along?

That's all there is to any of the scoring systems, friend. It doesn't make sense to put an unfair level of explanation on PPSC. It is what it is, and explanations have been given time and time again on this site for many years.

You need to start by explaining why you don't think PPSC should be permitted as a non-default option. I don't see anywhere that you have even addressed the issue.

Are you saying equal draws don't make sense to you and you would rather play SoS. Well then, do so.

Our whole point is some of us like to play PPSC where a strong second gets a thrown a bone. So what? If you don't like it, don't play it. But don't unilaterally remove it as an option just because some people are "confused" and morally indignant about it.

responding to kuta

Look at the scoring structure:

There is an incentive inherent in PPSC to intentionally lose the game.

If the second place player in the DrawA scenario gives 1 SC to the first place player, you end up with the Winner scenario.

SC count goes down but points awarded goes up!

Please explain why this scoring system makes any sense at all.

Very good, explaining your position. That's a start.

It is a loophole that I've never seen exploited, but it probably has been somewhere sometime. The more common phenomenon is someone with one or two centers left to their name supports someone in a win. This changes the play dynamic. And some of you seem to feel such variation in play should not be permitted on this site.

Giving a few point scraps to strong seconds is not in the original concept of a win. That point has been made over and over. But, as a non-default option, it is a popular way to play for new players and, as someone pointed out, casual players. And, it is important to note that no scoring scheme is canon.

I don't know if anyone else cares, but do we really need two threads on the same topic?

"The more common phenomenon is someone with one or two centers left to their name supports someone in a win. This changes the play dynamic."

Explain logically why this should happen with the incentives of any scoring system. Your choice.

Now, can PPSC be improved while retaining its basic merit of giving some small reward based on center count? Yes. Is it the perfect paragon of scoring? No. But right now it is the only scheme that gives any value to a strong second. I know some you detest it, but I don't see why it creates any kind of problem for its detractors.

Mr. Kuta, explain _logically_ why PPSC causes problem or disruption to those who don't like it. Is choosing not to play PPSC simply not working for you?

You won't even attempt to entertain the mathematics of the situation. I can rest my case.

What case? The case that you don't want PPSC on the site but don't want to say why?

Perhaps if you do some soul searching and explore the source of you irrational anger on the subject, you'll some day be able to come back to this site and give answer.

I second that one thread was quite too much already.

@_jeff Kuta, first thing is that I think SoS scoring deals with the inequities in draw results, so I'm playing several SoS games to get some real experiences with it, so I can have a better understanding of how it works / influences players actions. One theory I have is that "major" powers having a draw will be more inclined to include a player, or players with a small number of sc's in a draw eg rather than two players having a 17 sc each draw, they'll include a third player eg 2 or 3 sc's and 15 sc / 16 sc in a three way draw.
So two way draws become three ways, three way draws become four way draws.

You also completely miss the point, I do not insist you cannot play wta, or DSS etc, but you appear to insist that we adhere to your chosen orthodoxy, and deny us our choice.

@AlSwearengen completely different topic I did get a recent copy of The Economist ( Dec 5th to 11th 2015) given to me, and noted their "condemnation" of the use of 1080 poison in Australia and New Zealand. I have to do some research, but I'm reasonably sure that 1080 poison is used because while it is poisonous to foxes and rabbits, imported pests, our Australian marsupials have an immunity / tolerance to it. But as I say, I have to do some research, so while I found many of the articles interesting, there's at least one thing I found that I regarded as stupid.

Okay so to briefly moderate:
Pro-PPSC- Argues that PPSC while not perfect is a popular scoring type for casual players. PPSC argues that removing PPSC with no definitive replacement (as they feel unranked and SoS are not valid replacements for PPSC) is wrong and when the mod team finishes therir trial run of SoS PPSC should be returned to the scoring options.

WTA/DSS - argues that PPSC is an inferior game mode that encourages draws and peopel to "throw" the game. WTA argues that by remvoing PPSC this site is moving closer to being a canon diplomacy site.

PPSC Countrer- PPSC counters that while PPSC may encourage throwing the game or draws that is how it is inherently different and thus a casual play style. PPSC is confused why WTA is so adamant about ruining their webdip experience. PPSC also argues that since the original avalon hill diplomacy has 0 mentions of any scoring method; all the scoring WTA and SoS included are not canon. Further PPSC would like to point out the various variants currently being used on site.

WTA counters- that PPSC is a majorly flawed point system and should never return. If WTA had it's way the other variants would be gone too. The only thing WTA regards as canon is WTA, classic. Besides this WTA encourages that PPSC users try out the new options and decide for themselves.

Hey all,

Given that we already have another thread pertaining to the exact same topic few several hundred more posts, I'm going to ask that you keep discussion of new scoring systems to that thread. This is the third thread that has been created on the same topic. Since Mafia has agreed to keep to a single thread, I think its fair that scoring systems do the same.

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